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Thorfinn · 03-27-2003, 12:32 PM

I'm not sure what is accomplished by the ad hominem. Are you trying to discredit the argument by pointing out a potential conflict of interest?

Additionally, whatever abuses employers have committed pales beside the way the government abuses the employees. Seriously, through payroll taxes, you lose about 15% of your money straight off the top. Between payroll taxes, workman's comp, and unemployment, you are somewhere around 25%. This is not counting any possible income tax. In other words, if not for the gov't payroll taxes and mandates, in only six hours, you could have the same "pre-tax" income you now have in 8. If your employer tried to force you to work an extra two hours for free, you would hear nothing but cries of oppression, yet when the government does it, you simply hear nothing.

Compounding the problem is that taxes on corporations and investment capital increases the cost of consumer goods by somewhere between 400% and 800%. In other words, because of government, you pay 32 cents for a 4 cent can of tomato sauce. Just imagine how much better off you would be if your paycheck went 8x further.

Taking it to the lowest level, imagine a $6.00 per hour ditch digger. Without the payroll taxes, he would be making $8.00 per hour. If not for the 800% increase in the prices of goods, cet. par., this ditchdigger would have the means to live the lifestyle of a current day CEO making a cool $125k per year. Alternatively, he could live the same lifestyle he has now working less than an hour a day. Not too shabby, eh?

The upshot of all this is that whatever abuses employers have perpetrated upon employees are nothing compared to the abuses the government has perpetrated. They are not even in the same league. Most people see no problem with government forcing them, presumably since they got to vote on which taskmaster weilds the whip, yet have no problem screaming foul when an "evil" employer decides to replace someone with another, more qualified person, or even to phase out the position entirely.

It is usually incredibly poor form to use anecdotes as the main thrust of the argument, but I'll bite. No Cerek's wife was not treated fairly, and neither was the security guard. What difference does that make? I will await your argument that because one person treated another unfairly, it is justified to empower a third person to treat a fourth person unfairly.

A 42 year old guy at my wife's company just died of cancer. A local 35 year old tv personality with no symptoms dropped dead on a basketball court of a massive heart attack. Several of my friends and colleagues have already been planted at an early age due to heart disease, heart attacks, auto accidents and cancer. Some people are smarter, or faster, better looking than others. What do all these have in common? None of them are fair. In the grand scheme of things, the unfairness done to Cerek's wife wouldn't even show up in the background clutter of the unfairness of life.

Life is not fair, and the sooner you learn that, the better.

[ 03-27-2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

03-27-2003, 12:32 PM	#52
Thorfinn Zhentarim Guard Join Date: February 24, 2003 Location: Indiana Age: 61 Posts: 358	I'm not sure what is accomplished by the ad hominem. Are you trying to discredit the argument by pointing out a potential conflict of interest? Additionally, whatever abuses employers have committed pales beside the way the government abuses the employees. Seriously, through payroll taxes, you lose about 15% of your money straight off the top. Between payroll taxes, workman's comp, and unemployment, you are somewhere around 25%. This is not counting any possible income tax. In other words, if not for the gov't payroll taxes and mandates, in only six hours, you could have the same "pre-tax" income you now have in 8. If your employer tried to force you to work an extra two hours for free, you would hear nothing but cries of oppression, yet when the government does it, you simply hear nothing. Compounding the problem is that taxes on corporations and investment capital increases the cost of consumer goods by somewhere between 400% and 800%. In other words, because of government, you pay 32 cents for a 4 cent can of tomato sauce. Just imagine how much better off you would be if your paycheck went 8x further. Taking it to the lowest level, imagine a $6.00 per hour ditch digger. Without the payroll taxes, he would be making $8.00 per hour. If not for the 800% increase in the prices of goods, cet. par., this ditchdigger would have the means to live the lifestyle of a current day CEO making a cool $125k per year. Alternatively, he could live the same lifestyle he has now working less than an hour a day. Not too shabby, eh? The upshot of all this is that whatever abuses employers have perpetrated upon employees are nothing compared to the abuses the government has perpetrated. They are not even in the same league. Most people see no problem with government forcing them, presumably since they got to vote on which taskmaster weilds the whip, yet have no problem screaming foul when an "evil" employer decides to replace someone with another, more qualified person, or even to phase out the position entirely. It is usually incredibly poor form to use anecdotes as the main thrust of the argument, but I'll bite. No Cerek's wife was not treated fairly, and neither was the security guard. What difference does that make? I will await your argument that because one person treated another unfairly, it is justified to empower a third person to treat a fourth person unfairly. A 42 year old guy at my wife's company just died of cancer. A local 35 year old tv personality with no symptoms dropped dead on a basketball court of a massive heart attack. Several of my friends and colleagues have already been planted at an early age due to heart disease, heart attacks, auto accidents and cancer. Some people are smarter, or faster, better looking than others. What do all these have in common? None of them are fair. In the grand scheme of things, the unfairness done to Cerek's wife wouldn't even show up in the background clutter of the unfairness of life. Life is not fair, and the sooner you learn that, the better. [ 03-27-2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]