[Cloudbringer]

Ramon! I can't believe I haven't managed to get back here until now. Sorry I didn't see this and respond sooner! Mea Culpa, mea maxima culpa, my friend.

Cloudphenom, you got it right on the money. The "underlying message of hope" as you described it so accuratey was really at the very bottom of TNG's appeal. But otherwise there seems to have been a slight misunderstanding: I never meant to say that religion/spirituality and mythology should not play a major role in science fiction, quite to the contrary, but that they should to do so as the psychological, social and even political, in one word anthropological, phenomena that they are. (I know that for you, as a christian, religion is even more, but I hope you agree that in this context, that does not matter. To use your example: Worf would for sure not have been as complex and interesting a character if he had not lived in a constant struggle between his Klingon ideals and moral values, both linked closely to Klingon mythology and religion, and the technocratic, secular and rational principles governing the life/service in Starfleet. But how would you have liked it if he had summoned a Klingon god to save the Enterprise or if that deity had granted him supernatural powers to do so ?

Well, now I feel good. We agreed on everything!
I will say though, that if you are referring to the "wormhole aliens" aka "The Prophets". I think it's important to distinguish here that only the Bajorans thought in "deity" terms when it involved them. The Starfleet personnel saw them as yet another un-defined alien species that had control of the Bajoran timeline in some way that wasn't understood by the Federation. The fact that Starfleet didn't understand it, to my way of thinking, adds a little reality back to the show. I had trouble believing that our scientists of the future could crack every mystery and dissect each alien species , cataloging it down to the subatomic particle level! Nice to admit, hey, WE JUST DUNNO, GANG! From a denouement point of view , yes, it is undesirable to have SUPERBEING-X swoop in and do the deus ex machina thing. But sometimes, I'm just willing to admit the writers were bad! (chuckle)

Don't you even agree that one could go to the extreme to call such a notion of religion childish, belittling the true faith of people like you ? You have to keep yours after all without being able to rely on the reassuring effect of direct divine intervention. Beware that I am not talking of pure entertainment like fantasy, but of fictional literature/films of quality that at their best could and should aspire to be at least a little bit more than just escapist entertainment (see also my earlier post above).

When you put it that way, sure I do. But it wasn't my faith they were attempting to explain away with an alien race. I guess I was willing to ‘suspend my disbelief' for the sake of the entertainment factor in this show. I will say, though that my least favorite episodes of DS9 are ones that involved Bajoran religious practices and the Prophets/aliens. Which of course begs the question: Why the heck did I attempt to discuss it and do the Devil's Advocate thing at all? Sometimes I'm just contrary, what can I say! Love a good back and forth discussion of a topic near and dear to my heart, I guess!

Btw, sorry to disappoint you, but my course of study is none of the natural sciences but a rather bizarre and rare one called "Spatial Planing". It is an interdisciplinary subject and while upon graduation I will hold the title of "engineer", mostly because my university used to be a technological college, it is designed and taught mostly as an applied social science consisting of many courses on sociology, political/governmental studies and economics. And I have never been particularly interested in the natural sciences, either, rather in politics, economics and history. Btw, for me economics is mainly a social science, too and I always laugh at those economists who want it to be one of these cool natural sciences. But how could it be an exact science if it deals with human decision-making ? So, yes, while I am often analytical, I am much more interested in humans than in things. And can be veeeeeery sentimental, too. But hey, don't tell the babes, I would lose my standing. Oops !

Well, I guessed ‘engineer' , anyway! (chuckle) Email me if you would, I'd like to know more about it, but hate to spam up the thread anymore...uh we are sort of off topic with our book discussion already! (grin) Too late, o sentimental one, you've been caught out...I read the ladyZ threads! Hey, makes you much more a catch in my book!

Short question, long answer ? Well, with me, you better get used to it ! That is German thoroughness.

LOL...So noted! And it's Cloudy's way to be extensive in explanations too- course mine are often just wordy -haha.....together we could fill a thread in record time!

Amber, I want to end by saying that I am amazed by and in awe with your multi-faceted personality: from in-depth conversation to light-hearted chat, from teaching to hyperpowerspamming, from flirting to joking around, from comforting to bantering you can do it all ! And all at blazing speed. But above all, the notion of a Clinton/Gore-voting, church-going, cat-loving, house-decorating, russian-speaking registered republican, charity-worker, almost-wife-of-a-Siberian-peasant and university staff member fascinates me. It is a pleasure conversing with you. Go ahead, please, feel free to blush ! ------------------ So long ! R³ - Co-president(s) of the Club of Broken Hearts

Whew! LOL
I hardly know what to say...uh oh, a speechless SpamQueen? ! Thank you for the ‘thorough' compliment! Or is that compliments, plural? LOL

For the record...not Clinton/Gore- was sick that election day and would have voted the loser, I'm afraid! Just Gore this time around!

Just me being me, Ramon. I think we are all pretty multi-faceted.. Sometimes we get stereo-typed and that's always been a major peeve of mine. To be defined by one thing or another, not the whole. Thank you so much for noticing! (big smile, really big smile)

Amber/Cloudbringer

PS- did you find those Arthur C. Clarke books yet?