[Yorick]

Cloudy, I'm kind of discussing with Kathen and Lav, and it's a related topic. Bear with for a wee moment.

Originally posted by LordKathen: How about god comes down here and stops all the killing and starving and cruelty in the world with his presense. But this is all a part of his "plan" right? He would need to shake my hand and say lets help these people get some food and make them better.

How would you, if you were God, balance humans free will, with preventing harm?

Also, how is God meant to "come down here"? The demand assumes that God is like any other created lifeform and inhabits a single point of time and space. Yet, Christians who believe in God believe he is 'omnipresent' and outside his creation. Pantheists believe he IS creation.

The only way the creator awareness could 'come down here' would be to become part of the creation. As a human perhaps. Yet the last ime he was here, we killed him. Strung him up on a cross. Even so, millions don't believe he was who he said he was.

However, as per your resquest, he did shake peoples hands, feed people, and heal the sick. He also empowered people who believe in him to heal the sick as well.

An important aspect of the healing though was FAITH. When Jesus healed leperosy, he told the leper "Your faith has made you well".

As far as stopping the killing and starving, well, aside from removing our free will, there is a solution to all that, and that lies in Jesus teachings of turning the other cheek, loving and praying for your enemies and those that persecute you. Feeding the homeless and the poor has long been a domain of church organisations, and the principals of leaving food out for beggars and vagrants is found in the old testament part of the bible.

Put simply, Gods given us the guidebook to achieving world peace and zero hunger, but also given us the freedom to reject that guidebook and look out for ourselves.

Interesting balance.

How was that? Was that to sarcastic? Was that inapropriate? Off topic? Flaming?

Not at all.

Yorich, in all your articulate writings here on IW, Im sure your intelligent enough to know something about Darwin. Well he has my answers, and LOTS of tangable evidence to his theories. I dont run my life around supernatural ideas or feelings of joy (or guilt).

Darwin still believed a creator breathed life into the first living cell. Darwinism and God are not preclusive to one another.

Once again, bygons Yorich. You sound like a passionate inteligent man. And I respect that. Maybe you should stick to just loving god and not worrying about what an athiest wants or thinks. Thats all I was trying to say in the first place. I am a musician also, we probly could actually agree on something if we could change this subject.[/qb]

Vive le difference. If I wanted to talk to someone who agreed with everything I'd look in the mirror - even then I wouldn't find zero contention. Self conflict is an intersting reality.

In any case, knowing what an atheist thinks is precisely the point. You called me on 'not presuming to know what you think'. Fair enough. I'm inviting you to tell me. Correct me.

What would you require - honestly - to accept Gods reality. There is no need for contention between us. We don't have to agree to be without conflict in a conversation.

[ 01-21-2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]