[Dundee Slaytern]

Crikey, some people seem to think I am an Ogre when it comes to debating. [img]tongue.gif[/img] On with the commenting,

Originally posted by drewal: Let's use my level 38 necromancer as an example...

I will use my level 31 Sorcerer as an example, giving you a slight advantage of one additional level nine spell, +7 HP and... that is about it I think.

The advantage lies in having a greater repetoire of spells available, and he's got just about every spell in his book.

I love this argument, because it is only truly an advantage, when most of the spells in the game are useful. Unfortunately, this is not so. Why, for some spell levels, I am forced to select mediorce spells simply because there are no other good spells already.

A Sorcerer can select 4-5 spells per spell level, and in a twisty way, this is roughly how many good spells there are per spell level. What a Sorcerer uses, is also what a Mage usually uses, but the Sorcerer has the advantage of immediate versatility and superior firepower to boot.

If both spellcasters were equally skilled, they would be able to neutralize each other for a good period of time. But during that time, the mage would learn what spells the sorcerer has available, and rememorize-wish-rest accordingly. The sorcerer cannot do that.

You would need the following at ALL times, Spell Immunity:Abjuration for Dispel Magic and Imprisonment, Globe of Invulnerability for level 1-4 spells, Spell Immunityivination for True Sight, Protection from Magical Weapons for Melf's Minute Meteors and summons, either Protection from Magical Energy or Spell Immunity:Necromancy for Finger of Death and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Spell Immunity:Enchantment for Feeblemind, etc... ...

If you are going to try and counter every single thing a Sorcerer can do, you are eventually going to lose because believe it or not, the spells I described above are endless and infinite until the Sorcerer stops spellcasting. This is because of the Wish spell, which the Sorcerer can use during battle to restore spells effectively.

Unless you lucked out or wasted all your level nine spell slots with the spell Wish, a Mage cannot do the same, and even then, not as effectively. Even with 25 WIS, the chance to get the "Rest & Rememorise" option is roughly 12.5% if I recall correctly.

A tip for Mage users out there, do not use the Wish route( too much of a gamble for Mages). That is for Sorcerers. Use the Spell Trap method that Alson uses. This tactic can be found on this website.

In conclusion, do not think that a Sorcerer is limited in his/her options.

The necro can summon anything, cast any offensive spell, cast any defensive spell, the sorcerer can't. Since the sorcerer is limited, the necro will be able to block what needs blocking, and attack where the sorcerer is weakest.

*GASP!* Horrors! I cannot summon a Warg! Oh, oh, oh the humanity! And Grease! I cannot cast Grease! Why oh why did I not pick Grease? *Sniffle*, and no Protection from Normal Missiles, surely I will perish now.

Rightttt... ...

Skeleton Warriors, Mordenkainen's Swords, Sword Spiders and Planetars are all an arcane spellcaster needs. Honestly... will a Sorcerer care if that Mage over there can conjure a Fire Elemental which will succumb to a MSword anyway?

A Sorcerer can kill anything with ease, so long as the battleground is not a Dead-Magic Zone. Ever Weimer, Modder of many of the outrageously difficult Improved Fights, admits that they are a cakewalk for a Sorcerer, because you see... a Sorcerer is the cheesiest arcane spellcaster in the game.

Short of psionics, a Sorcerer can defend him/herself from anything. A few select spells, and the Sorcerer more or less gives him/herself immunity to death. Why... for a lark, a Sorcerer can heal himself while simultaneously killing everybody in the MAP with the same spell. A Mage can try to do the same, but only a Sorcerer can take it to the extreme. Heard of the Ritual Mod? A Sorcerer can clear out the forest in less than a turn.

The adaptability of the mage outweighs the brute force of the sorcerer. The brute force of the sorcerer will take anything else out.

Strangely enough, it has always been the Sorcerer who has the easier time in the game. Why? Simply because offense IS the best defense. That smouldering pile of ashes cannot hurt you... ...

You speak of adaptability, but a Mage's adaptability is not during a battle. A Sorcerer can easily adapt during the battle, making last-minute decisions when something unexpected happens. A Mage cannot. When something unexpected happens to a Mage, what usually happens is that the next spell casted is called "Reload". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

I understand you have fought Improved Irenicus. I will let it be known that my Sorcerer, with NO prior knowledge of what goes on in that mod, with no clue and with no idea of what to expect, defeated that mod on Insane Difficulty on the very FIRST try with no reloading.

THAT's adaptability for you. A Sorcerer is not just about brute force, a Sorcerer is about brute force mixed with immediate versatility and very handy tactics that really come alive in a Sorcerer's hands, but are mediorce with a Mage.

In the end, it would really come dowen to who fails a save first.

Why give the opponent a chance, when you can use tactics that do not allow the target to save?

Mmmmm... brains... ...