[Grungi]

Some points

- earth is suspended IN nothing not over nothing, as space is emptiness with no up down, left right etc, so looks like job got it wrong [img]tongue.gif[/img]

- evolution, carbon dating etc have been proved my thousands of scientists time and again, doesnt mean they are correct but gives far more credence than a book written thousands of years ago, so you choose to believe the bible over proven science, your choice but dont ridicule others for believing what is more provable, in any other situation such as in a court of law your statements would be considered fantastical, which is another point in itself, you have to swear to god (or used to) on the bible when giving the truth, but if you said you saw jesus in a courtroom noone would believe you, hows that work? the people actually swearing on the bible dont truly believe its what it says it is, doh to that, people that hold GOD high wouldnt believe you if you had a vision about him, dismissing it as fantastical, like people who are religious to do me when i say i really have seen a ghost, i have and you cant convince me otherwise, was when i was younger and was a disembodied hand, not massively scary admittedly, blue, transparent and coming through my door, then it went, never saw anything like it again, but no religious people i told before believed me, yet they believe in a holy ghost and a divine people, so they can laugh at me, im sorry i laugh straight back, whose the bigger fool? I believe in things i can see at least.

- cloud

i dont expect religious types to be perfect, i expect them to strive towards it, insulting/sarcasm etc hurts people and that i believe goes against tenants of all major religions, shouldnt hurt other people in any manner, if im wrong please tell me now and ill drop the point, but however much you think sarcasm doesnt hurt people, it does, words do hurt, anyone the subject of bullying realises that words hurt far more than sticks & stones, personally these days say what you like to me im toughskinned, but others are less fortunate, just because they make stupid comments is it right or within your religion to make them feel bad about it? (pathetic example earlier i know but however small that sarcastic comment was maybe it did actually hurt his feelings)

for me:

a murderer who kills is terrible, they breach societies morals and my morals.

a religious (if their religion is against murder) murderer who kills is way worse, because not only are they breaching society's morals and my morals they also breach their own.

same kinda thing for me with the sarcasm, if im sarcastic to someone and hurt their feelings then yeah i know i shouldnt have done it but im not overly bothered, if i was a christian (sorry its the example i keep using but im talking about most religions) then id feel worse if i had hurt soemone else.

Rokenn totally agree with your two points earlier on, and yeah its going round in circles, i said that ages ago, you cant prove it till you die and even then not so sure.

Oh and cloud yes i do have strange beliefs [img]smile.gif[/img] very unique ones which im proud of, the good thing about my beliefs is given proof they can change, my mind isnt set one way or the other unlike unfortunately most peoples, if im given solid proof then they change, though i will never ever accept the fact that a supreme being is my superior (ie he might exist but fcked if im bowing down before him)