[Cerek the Barbaric]

I Copied this Post from the "Tony Blair" thread so that I could respond to it in a more appropriate thread.

Origninally posted by Grungi: to be honest the only people left on this thread will be quite happy to respond on this thread i think so no problem continuing it here, its about 2nd world war and about religion anyway. and its funny that you can look in the past and say sacrifices of humans were a christian thing to do and incest was a christian thing to do but its completely taboo nowadays, personally i know incest is wrong and the idea of it makes me want to puke but i cannot find any good reason for why it is actually wrong apart from the fact that it almost makes me physically ill just thinking about it so what im saying is christianity has changed overtime which contradicts the religion as i see it, if religion and god is perfect in the first place then why would it change, because it changes it is something made by man therefore not to any divine being but a means to worship, people need something to believe in so they create a godlike being otherwise in the olden days they'd have gone mad without it. I believe if a religion was truly correct then it would never need to change itself as its morals and edicts would remain the same over time, perfection needs no improvement, and as god was pretty close to adam and eve and their family at the time you'd have thought he'd have frowned on the whole incest thing, as he obviously encouraged it why is incest criminal today in christian societies? God says its okay so why doesnt the christianity based law.... first time i thought of that point but boy is it a good one definately interested to hear what people have to say bout that heh btw only way you can plug alot of holes is by suggesting supernatural arguments in which case the whole argument falls down yet again as thats the crux of the whole thing, do you believe or not, basically supernatural explanations explain everything away, at least with science you have some proof but even then that gets proved wrong by the next scientist who comes along, i have trouble believing anything these days but the one thing im 100 percent sure on and believe implicitly is that i exist and that i am in control of my life and my thoughts and no god existing could create someone like me, wouldnt be possible, only way to create someone with my qualities and flaws would be random generation based on evolution therefore im not created more sorta moulded over time, i honestly dont believe anyone could (or would even want to) create someone like me let alone someone like saddam hussein or the like. Cept maybe for a laugh in which case life is one cruel joke for some godlike creatures amusement. oh and on another note, so what about cavemen? neanderthal man came before or after adam and eve?

To address the first portion of your post, Christianity has NEVER condoned nor allowed human sacrifices. The incident with Abraham and Isaac was a test by God of Abraham's faith. God never intended for Abraham to actually slay Isaac and he provided a ram to replace Isaac on the altar.

As for the issue of incest, it isn't that the religion has changed so much as society has. Some religions STILL practice Polygamy, but in the time the Old Testament was written (several thousand years ago), incest and polygamy were just a matter of simple logistics. There weren't as many people living then and most "tribes" or townsfolk were confined to a relatively small geographic region. There simply weren't that many "suitable mates" available for everybody. That's another reason there were so many wars between different tribes. Not only did the victor gain access to the resources of the defeated, but their own numbers were "trimmed down" in the process, which increased the likelihood of survival for the rest.

As for the second part of your post, you claim that no supernatural being could have created you the way you are. You believe instead that you are a "random generation of evolution". There is only one problem with that theory. If you are "randomly generated", then you should be extraordinarily unique (like an albino tiger). Yet, while I am certain your combination of personality, values, beliefs, and thougt processes may be unique.....your physical geneology is not. Fact is, there are several million others who are very similar physically to you. Therefore, it cannot be the result of "random generation"...since the "same values" keep recurring.

As for the personality, thought processes, etc...those are formed by your societal environment rather than your geneology.

Finally, I have often questioned the "timeline correlation" of Adam & Eve vs Neanderthal Man myself. The best answer I have found so far is that they came several generations later. Specifically, I would say the Neanderthal man "appeared" after the Tower of Babylon was built. That's when Mankind decided they would build a tower tall enought to reach to Heaven itself. God did not approve of this endeavor and He stepped in. He "confused thier languages" so that the different peoples no longer understood what the others were saying. The Bible also indicates that God caused them to "lose some of the knowledge of technology" they had developed so that they would never again be able to even attempt such a feat.

The Bible states that the Israelites were divided into 12 Tribes...and some of these tribes were nomadic. And a nomadic tribe with primitive knowledge of communcation and tool use is also a fairly accurated description of Neanderthals.

One question I have for you, Grungi, is this. You say you can't believe in any kind of supernatural being that created you or the world. Yet you stated in a response to Ronn Bmann's that supernatural occurances were one of the FEW things you DID believe in. How do you reconcile that you believe in supernatural events more than science, but can't believe in a supernatural Creator??

{BTW,if I misunderstood your response to Ronn, then I apologize in advance}