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Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna:
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I'd argue that both exist outside the human mind. Do humans invent equations or discover them?
No one can prove anything doesn't exist. To do so you'd have to experience all there is to experience throughout history.
ALl you can ever say is "I've never experienced this" or "I've experienced that".
Well, I perpetually experience God. That is my reality, my truth and my experience and no-one short of living my life can prove me wrong. Neither is it for me to prove God exists to anyone. God is not an ideology or rationale that has to be defended. He is not a theory that must be proven. He simply IS. We have, I have, the choice to reject him, ignore him, seek him out, attempt to rationalise and understand him or simply love him as he loves me
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I am not arguing gods existance or non existance. I am simply saying that without humanity would there be god or math? When is the last time you saw a fish doing algebra or a moose going to church? If there were no humanity to put names on things and quantify them would it even be important in the first place?[/QUOTE]I think the answer Hunter is found in time. WIthout humans would there be hours minutes and seconds? No. Would time ceaselessly roll on? You bet.
THe very fact that humans discover that which is previously unknown, proves time and again, that there is much beyond our experience. Just because something is not known or discovered yet, does not mean it will remain undiscovered forever.
The examples of subsonic soundwaves, UV light, viruses and bacteria, radar etc etc etc. Did they suddenly plop into existence once we discovered them, or were they always there, waiting to be discovered?
With my belief in God, comes the idea that humans are not the determining factor in existence. That 'reality' is not limited to human perception.