Quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
How is it societys fault that these people waste their days? Everyone has a choice, either do or do not. It seems that these people choose to "do not" when it comes to improving their own lives. Personal responibility is a harsh reality, but at the end of the day it comes down to the choices we make. Ultimately no one is responsible for us except for us.
When people on govt. assistance buy booze instead of food, that is a choice. When they sit at home all day and watch T.V. instead of looking for work , that is a choice. When they have 6 kids and can't feed them because they don't work, that is a choice. I choose to work 2 jobs because I like to go on vacation and live in a nice apartment and have a car. I am not too proud to work at McDonalds part time because that extra $150 a week pays my car note and insurance at the end of the month. It is all about choices and I have no pitty for anyone who chooses to waste day after day stealing oxegen from the rest of us.
|
My point was that we go beyond fault. The guy who stole Sever's car, and the other guy that stole it again (or was it another?) are at fault for stealing them. The sexual abuser of children is obviously and heinously at fault.
When we do this, there are pretty much two ways, between us, that we have presented choice, and probably goes right down to how we see societies. We do not seem to disagree on the reality of it, only the effect and scope of it. Your choice seems to me to exist in a vaccuum, but you allude to the very reason that this is impossible. Choices have consequences. Multiply that by several billion and you'll get to what I'm talking about - actions have effects that change the world a little bit at a time, changing the terrain of all subsequent actions. I'm not saying society is at fault...what would that even mean? I'm saying that these things constitute society along with everything else and change it for the negative. The choices we make exist in an extremely complex social context. As a social scientist, I'm interested in social action, but I'd be deadweight in my field if I didn't also care about how decisions were made, what the context of those decisions are, and what effect those decisions have.
My stance can be simple really...criminals and lowlifes are made, not born, just as hard working individuals such as yourself are made. At the end of the day they remain criminals and lowlifes by their actions, but, again, ignore the processes that continue to make degenerates and you've solved nothing nor appreciated the problem.