Let's try and ease up a bit on the namecalling, it doesn't really add to the quality of the discussion. I'm ok with using the term Islamofascists, because these guys are using a fascist ideology cloaked in religion. From what I can see it is a factually correct appellation for those particular radical groups. But Muslim retards or whatever is pretty immature, playground stuff. I'd hope we could elevate ourselves above that in discussion.
I posted about this at the cricket and football forum I moderate (ESPNSTAR.com - we have no religious moratorium as people there are able to carry on with discussions and disagreements with no hard feelings and don't feel like they have to play the "get the last word" game or "who can diss the other the most" even though they're on average 16-30 years old
).
I'll try and post my thoughts here without getting into detail about Islam, so as not to violate our moratorium. In my opinion it's because the religion of Islam has been hijacked by fanatical mullahs, many of who don't really have any formal religious training other than what they gave themselves (as Islam has no clergy). People like this guy Abu Hamza, who until recently ran the North Finsbury mosque in London until he was deported for hate crimes:
Quote:
Suicide bombings
Hamza says it is his followers' destiny to become "shaheed" (martyrs) and bring jihad (holy war) to "your own door".
"We ask Allah to make us mujahideen (holy warriors). We ask Allah to make us shaheed. Our immediate duty now is to correct our own homeland. So let us open our eyes, let us not go for jihad which is far away from our countries.
"Although it is good it is not as good as you do in your own door. You don't have to travel thousands and thousands of miles to become a shaheed - you can be shaheed right on your own doorstep. May Allah open our eyes for what's good for us - so we don't waste our Muslim blood far away."
Forging passports "I don't have papers ... you're all clever, you can make papers for yourself. This is also a part of jihad, this is part of the preparation."
On world domination
"The real weapons of mass destruction are the desire for martyrdom. Millions of you are ready to be shaheed. Half a million martyrdom shaheed is enough for Muslims to control the whole of earth forever. In the end of the day, Islam must control earth, whether we like it or not."
On Israel
"All the Israelis are fighters. That's why anybody over 15 is a warrior and he should be killed
... It's about exposing these Zionist Jews who are now
doing the work of Hitler against ourselves and the nation."
On September 11
"Wherever you are, death will catch up with you - even if you are in high elevated safe towers.
"Where is their Superman? Who is to blame? The American government and their pressure cooker policy which exploded in their faces."
He adds later: "These scenes are going to repeat."
Click here
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You know what this guy used to be? He used to be a nightclub bouncer, for goodness sakes. But because he's charismatic and seen as being "cool" and sticking it up the hierarchy and talks about cool stuff like jihad and holy war and all the rest of it, he influences heaps of young people, many of whom are already disaffected and disassociated because they aren't integrated (particularly in many parts of Europe). Because there are no formal clergy or clergy structure in Islam, anybody can be a mullah or expert on Islam - just make sure you have a real loud voice. Other examples? Omar Bakri Mohammed, Omar Brooks and Anjem Choudary.
I repeat that the problem with Islam is that MAINSTREAM Muslims (especially the mainstream mullahs) choose to disown these people rather than engaging them and refuting the rubbish they're spouting. By closing their eyes to the problem and saying "it's not a Muslim problem because these people aren't Muslim", they are helping to propagate these radical extremist ideas.
[ 02-01-2007, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]