Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post

Magness · 12-12-2001, 03:00 PM

quote:

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:

You have said this Magness, we are all pretty clear where you come from on this issue. Could you please explain why it is evil in your mind rather than just referring to me as evil continually. I do not mind in the slightest as long as you give me your reasons.

The sky is blue, fishes swin in the sea, fascism and communism are evil.

quote:

Originally posted by BtS:

If you read the communist manifesto or Capital or anything like that you will find that it is supposed to be a global force. By necessity those countries had to maintain a capitalist economy to trade with the outside world. As a result they were beset by capitalists on the outside and corruption on the inside. You cannot operate a communist system with a capitalist mindframe (I agree with you again it would seem on this point but hear me out...) or a capitalist economy. Communism really needs to operate in an autarchy (like the Isreali kibbutz's). This is the reason Cuba has done so well IMO - they were forced by a ridiculously restrictive blockade to become almost entirely self sufficient. This means that unlike a lot of countries they did not have to adopt extremely repressive measures to ensure the survival of communism. They have recently had to adapt their economy to make way for the tourist industry, so I would agree they have become a lot more capitalist.

This sounds to me more like an excuse. "We cannot succeed on the small or the medium scale. We will only be able to succeed on a global scale, after the competion has been eliminated." What will happen then. Communism would do what is always has done and always would do. The only difference is that there'd be nobody to say that it failed. The dictatorship of the proletariate would simply proclaim "success" and slaughter any and all who disagreed.

quote:

Originally posted by BtS:

To the point that it ignores greed, therefore meaning that it can't work. I will keep this short as it is a little boring. What is human nature? Where do you get the proof that human nature is based on greed? There isn't any - people think that it is self evident in our society. The key words here are IN OUR SOCIETY. We have built up a mind frame of greed, it wasn't there already. Every waking moment of your life under capitalism is dedicated to yourself and your family so is it any wonder that people are greedy. And then when we try and change this suprisingly people's minds don't change overnight. Communism is a long process but it is also inevitable and it will hopefully overcome the problems in our society of greed and inequality.

Barry (and Yorick), another phrase for "greed" is self-interest. People are not always "greedy", but they will always act in their own "self-interest". I am not a bleeping damned ant, waiting to be told where to work, when to sleep, what and when to eat, where I can work, what to think!!! And no bleeping thrice-damned communist government will EVER dictate these to me, a free, honest, honorable, rugged-individualist, freedom-loving American!!!

quote:

Partial quote from above by BtS:

Every waking moment of your life under capitalism is dedicated to yourself and your family so is it any wonder that people are greedy.

That is so grossly and completely untrue!!!

How does this explain the self sacrifice of the firefighters and police officers in NYC who died attempting to save thousands of people they didn't know!!! I don't know a single one of them, but I honor their sacrifice and devotion to duty!!!

How does this explain the brave citizens on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania who fought to retake control of the jet rather than let the terrorist cowards crash it into another building and kill hundreds or thousands more people? Those brave people knew that they were most likely dead, but they sacrificed themselves for their fellow citizens without big brother government telling them to do so or forcing them. They did it for love of family and love of country and love of FREEDOM!!!

How does this explain the hundreds of Red Cross volunteers that dropped everything they were doing to rush to the disaster zones to help???

How does it explain the thousands of NYC residents who rushed to the hospitals to donate blood when it was thought that there'd be a need?

It seems that every one of these people I've referenced above has (or had) a few waking moments that were not dedicated to capitalist greed!!!

12-12-2001, 03:00 PM	#63
Magness Quintesson Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Manchester, NH, USA Posts: 1,025	quote: Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: You have said this Magness, we are all pretty clear where you come from on this issue. Could you please explain why it is evil in your mind rather than just referring to me as evil continually. I do not mind in the slightest as long as you give me your reasons. The sky is blue, fishes swin in the sea, fascism and communism are evil. quote: Originally posted by BtS: If you read the communist manifesto or Capital or anything like that you will find that it is supposed to be a global force. By necessity those countries had to maintain a capitalist economy to trade with the outside world. As a result they were beset by capitalists on the outside and corruption on the inside. You cannot operate a communist system with a capitalist mindframe (I agree with you again it would seem on this point but hear me out...) or a capitalist economy. Communism really needs to operate in an autarchy (like the Isreali kibbutz's). This is the reason Cuba has done so well IMO - they were forced by a ridiculously restrictive blockade to become almost entirely self sufficient. This means that unlike a lot of countries they did not have to adopt extremely repressive measures to ensure the survival of communism. They have recently had to adapt their economy to make way for the tourist industry, so I would agree they have become a lot more capitalist. This sounds to me more like an excuse. "We cannot succeed on the small or the medium scale. We will only be able to succeed on a global scale, after the competion has been eliminated." What will happen then. Communism would do what is always has done and always would do. The only difference is that there'd be nobody to say that it failed. The dictatorship of the proletariate would simply proclaim "success" and slaughter any and all who disagreed. quote: Originally posted by BtS: To the point that it ignores greed, therefore meaning that it can't work. I will keep this short as it is a little boring. What is human nature? Where do you get the proof that human nature is based on greed? There isn't any - people think that it is self evident in our society. The key words here are IN OUR SOCIETY. We have built up a mind frame of greed, it wasn't there already. Every waking moment of your life under capitalism is dedicated to yourself and your family so is it any wonder that people are greedy. And then when we try and change this suprisingly people's minds don't change overnight. Communism is a long process but it is also inevitable and it will hopefully overcome the problems in our society of greed and inequality. Barry (and Yorick), another phrase for "greed" is self-interest. People are not always "greedy", but they will always act in their own "self-interest". I am not a bleeping damned ant, waiting to be told where to work, when to sleep, what and when to eat, where I can work, what to think!!! And no bleeping thrice-damned communist government will EVER dictate these to me, a free, honest, honorable, rugged-individualist, freedom-loving American!!! quote: Partial quote from above by BtS: Every waking moment of your life under capitalism is dedicated to yourself and your family so is it any wonder that people are greedy. That is so grossly and completely untrue!!! How does this explain the self sacrifice of the firefighters and police officers in NYC who died attempting to save thousands of people they didn't know!!! I don't know a single one of them, but I honor their sacrifice and devotion to duty!!! How does this explain the brave citizens on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania who fought to retake control of the jet rather than let the terrorist cowards crash it into another building and kill hundreds or thousands more people? Those brave people knew that they were most likely dead, but they sacrificed themselves for their fellow citizens without big brother government telling them to do so or forcing them. They did it for love of family and love of country and love of FREEDOM!!! How does this explain the hundreds of Red Cross volunteers that dropped everything they were doing to rush to the disaster zones to help??? How does it explain the thousands of NYC residents who rushed to the hospitals to donate blood when it was thought that there'd be a need? It seems that every one of these people I've referenced above has (or had) a few waking moments that were not dedicated to capitalist greed!!!