Originally posted by Moni:
We'll honestly never know if Florida was won by popular vote or force. I am inclined to believe it was taken by force after the actions of Republicans against vote counters, breaking down doors and taking ballots, threatening violence, etc. Sure the Democrats got violent! They wanted to make damn sure that Bush had "won" or not!
Violence was threatened on both sides, there was intimidation on both sides, and there was wrong doing on both sides. The Democrats were angry for the same reason as the Republicans, they thought the election was being stolen from their candidate. The Democrats were not satisfied with the count and the Republicans were not satisfied with the recount. Special treatment was cried by both sides. Both sides argued the same things about their opposition. Different sides of a coin? I think so.
Reporters counted the votes (in at least one of the suspect counties) after this was all over, and guess what? Both sides won! Depending on which reporter you listen to. [img]redface.gif[/img]
Excuse me? Even government officials will admit, the system needs updating and refined!
Where do you think the older most malfunctioning voting machines are placed? In minority districts. That's a fact, Jack!
Anyone with a high school education knows that the system is messed up because it is unfair to poorer districts and favors the richer ones! (Remember "The American Way"?
)
Unusual? No, it was unique. Whenever in history did the FLorida vote come down to being counted or given up through violence, or any other state for that matter?
I was talking about the Electorial College, not voting machines, etc., being fine. There is no problem with a president losing the national election with the popular vote and winning through the Electorial College. It's a rarity, but not something that can't happen as proven four times.
There are many issues brought to light by the close election that should have been addressed years ago. They weren't addressed because, without a close election, no one cared! "Didn't understand the ballot", "Absentees not counted", etc. Suddenly, America was concerned about these voters, who hadn't been counted correctly for years by some of the news accounts I saw.
Nationwide, Democrats and Republicans could have cared less about voters rights in Florida until it affected them, and then suddenly, it was a travesty of justice? Not hardly, this was as political as anything else and only mattered because of the closeness of the election. I stand by my statement, there is nothing wrong with the election process, as defined by the constitution, but there is plenty we can do to screw it up.
I saw the protests but don't remember violence stopping the votes. Decisions were made with relation to political and legal regards. There was no right side when it came to this. Each side did as much to stop what they didn't want to happen as the other side did.
Unusual as to the aforementioned Electorial College issue, but even regarding your points, this is hardly unique. There are voter irregularities in every local, state, and national election. It's terrible, it needs to be fixed, it targets the poor, but it's not unique.
The American Dream is about fixing what's wrong, not being perfect. Remember I said it's a "work in process". If I didn't say that, I was thinking it, and it sounds really good
*cough*Katherine Harris*cough
soon to *cough*run*cough for Senate
*offers Moni a lozenge*
Look for the Democratic Attorney General of Florida to "work" his way up the political ladder, too.
Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter. People worked for their side in this as far as their jobs and the law would allow. One side didn't do more/worse than the other.
There was no Bush conspiracy. His people worked as hard as they could for their candidate, just like Gore's people did. It could just as easily have gone the other way.
I don't count myself or the majority of the popular vote as a minority! And as legally as it was supposed to could very well be "interrpreted" as "as legally as it cost"
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
"As legally as it cost" is a pretty good assessment, but Gore's lawyers were just as expensive (more so, I'd imagine being more high profile) as Bush's, and it was Gore that decided on the legal route, which was ok, but lets not say Bush bought the presidency. Both sides were willing to go all the way, no matter what.
It all boils down to politics. Neither man would have been able to run for president without the powers that be, both in and out of office, giving them the chance and using their "power" to help the different causes.
-Minor Point- Florida's Supreme Court Justices
are elected officials (if I'm wrong don't hit me, but I swear I saw that during the election

), and they voted down party lines. Appointed officials are still appointed and approved by elected officials. Politics are politics.
As to the Supreme Court Justice's "for life" appointments, I like the idea. They may be of a political party to start with, and continue to carry the designation, but they don't have to worry about keeping "the party" happy after taking the oath. I think you see more honest decisions from them because of this. Of course, if party members didn't believe they were what they wanted, they wouldn't be nominated to start with. Checks and balances, to the "n-th" degree.
[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]