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Old 10-10-2001, 10:33 AM   #69
Silver Cheetah
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
Quote:
Originally posted by Prime2U:
Eek
Posting good evidence, backup and examples for this would fill a large book (in fact it's filled several) But I'll try to clarify on your questions a bit.

Thanks for your response, Prime2U (interesting name!), - here's mine...

Re your first point – could you just type out those ‘rules’ are that you are referring to? I have looked them up, but it isn’t clear. Thanks!

As far as I know, the outrages and atrocities that are practised on the Afghani people by the Taliban are not rooted in Islamic law. However, as Christianity has done throughout its long history, it is easy for unscrupulous men to gain and keep power by a convenient interpretation of so called holy injunctions.

For the rest, ok, what you seem to be saying is that terrorism happen because extremists hate the west and the concept of democracy and want everyone to accept Islam.

My own view is that terrorism happens because people who are living in often appalling conditions throughout the world see the West (represented by America because it is the biggest and most extreme target) as being somehow to blame for their condition, and want to a. wake up their attention and b. make them suffer for their actions.

Now, does that view have any basis in fact or doesn’t it?

Well, take a look at Saudi Arabia. The regime there has no respect for human rights at all, and continues to abuse its people. Washington supports the regime in Saudi, and Arabs know this. Why does Washington continue to support a regime with so little care for human rights? It is asking for trouble. Saudis grow up under this harsh rule, - which their leadership blames on the West (thus diverting attention from its own role). Certainly the West holds a share of blame – for supporting the repressive regime in the first place. A breeding ground for anti-western terrorists, if ever I saw one.

In Palestine, the Palestinians know that Israel is nothing without America. The US provides the tools that the Israelis use against the Palestinian population. The creation of the state of Israel was accomplished under the rule of the gun and the bayonet, and Britain played its part enthusiastically. Right or wrong, it happened. But for the Israelis to continue to extend their settlements further and further outwards from the original areas is wrong, without any shadow of a doubt, at least imho. The Palestinians respond to the Israeli attempts to extend their share of the land. Of course they do. Wouldn’t you? Their lives are hell. This is great breeding ground for terrorists who resent America.

As you yourself have made the point, American intervention throughout the Middle East is never disinterested. Like the rest of the West, the US depends on oil, which is its life blood. The history of American intervention in the Middle East is a history of protecting their vested interest.

American intervention in Afghanistan against the Soviets has had dire consequences, for example. After funding and arming the Taliban, acting in concert with Pakistan, America just fucked off and left them to it, after the Soviet threat was vanquished. A little more thought and a little less haste to be out of there might have worked wonders. But no, vested interest protection accomplished, off we go, bye bye.

(As I’m sure you are aware, there have been conflicts in which America has NOT intervened, - due to the fact it has no vested interest. I’m fine with America NOT intervening, by the way – I don’t believe it is down to the US to go around sorting out the rest of the world. I believe all nations need to unite and pool resources in order to stop abuses of human rights where there is a clear need to do so – after proper consideration and debate. Some of the elements needed for such a united peace keeping body are already in place, however, the problems of welding them into a coherent and cohesive whole are almost overwhelming. But it must be done, if our race is to move forward in amity.)

The West’s overwheening arrogance, coupled with its assumption that its way is best also plays a big part in Arab resentment. Globalisation (driven largely by American and European vested interests) is homogenising cultures throughout the world, and the world loses much by its doing so. In the UK, American culture rules ok. McDonalds, Starbucks and a host of other franchises. The US way of doing business, with its lack of emphasis on worker rights and conditions (I am here comparing with other European countries such as Holland and the Scandinavian countries.) is here to stay, it looks like. The coca cola culture. I find it bland and boring, generally speaking, although as with anything else, there are also good things to have come out of globalisation. The increased ability to communicate that we have, for example, through media such as the internet.

Not everyone wants to have their culture eaten up by McDonalds type huge franchises which sell shit in substitution for decent food. The more you have these big franchises taking over, the bigger the risk that small local businesses will be pushed out, because they can’t compete. In some very poor countries that isn’t going to happen, because the price of a hamburger is more than their weekly wage. So they look in the window and long for rubbish, because it has been sold to them as representative of a way of life, which in fact is not all that it is cracked up to be. (See below on this.)

Cultures that are radically different from that of the US view the spreading of that Western thought and ideas with alarm. Now, don’t get me wrong – much of western thought, and the structures that have come out of that thought is admirable, in intent if not always in implementation! However, the ills of our society, - the many diseases of the rich, (over consumption related), the high levels of crime, the enormous rise in mental illness, the lack of respect for the old, the easy acceptance of violence as normal, especially in tv and movies (including violence in sex), one cannot wonder at them not wanting some of these elements.

But yes, freedom is a wonderful thing, and there is no denying that in many cases, we in the west have more freedom than in other parts of the world. However, there are different definitions of freedom – freedom to work 9-5 at a job you hate, freedom to be mugged in the street, freedom to eat crap that will poison your body, freedom to watch material on tv that will poison your soul, freedom to be pressured by adverts 24 x 7 that are telling you your body and way of life are just not good enough, freedom to define yourself by your possessions, rather than who you are, freedom to live lonely in a city full of people... etc etc.

I’m not west bashing here. I love living in the West, and we have many freedoms which I for one do not wish to give up! But we don’t have a perfect society by any manner of means, and the freedoms we have do have their down side. I just wanted to mention a few of the more negative aspects, just so that you might have an idea of what other cultures might NOT want of what we have to offer.

By the way, the way that people often get acquainted with the West in other countries is by means of advertisements, those glossy depictions of lifestyles (rather than real lives) which are so attractive. Well, they would be, wouldn’t they? They are designed to sell product. In many cases, people in poorer countries have been seduced by images of the West, only to get here and find that there are two sides to every story. It is quite possible to come here and starve to death, or die of cold.

The West is not paradise, and we are not angels, although some of the press are trying to portray it as such, just lately, providig a black and white contrast, in many cases, between the happy and fluffy democratised Us and the the ‘horrors and injustices’ that flourish under Islam. (Polarity TV. I hate it.) Yes, we’re mostly just people trying to get along. Unfortunately, too often we do it on the backs of others who are poorer and more vulnerable than we are, WHETHER WE ARE CONCIOUS OF THAT OR NOT. Another reason for the resentment against the West.

There’s much more I could say about world capitalism and globalisation, exploitation of developing countries by the countries of the West (including my own) but I’ve said it all before in other threads. The reason I feel it is relevant here is that you can’t consider things in a vacuum. All the factors that make up a situation need to be looked at.

Anyway, that’s my two cents worth. (More like a dollar, actually, sorry it’s so long. And I still haven’t said even part of what I wanted to... )


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Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati




[This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 10-10-2001).]
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