Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post - US out-sourcing torture?

shamrock_uk · 02-22-2005, 07:11 PM

So is this actually true then?

I'd never heard about it before and was expecting denials but is this just common knowledge?

Apparently Clinton started the programme but the Bush administration has vastly accelerated it but I'm always inclined to take things like this with a pinch of salt. Having said that, googling outsourcing torture does seem to pull up a lot of links.

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Djinn: America gets the flack for things like this because the world expects better. Egypt, Morocco, Syria, and Jordan are well-known human rights abusers and really don't try to hide it.

The US on the other hand claims to have the moral right to re-shape the world around its views and impose its own system of government and ethics on other countries - its only natural that when this moral high ground is taken that the US gets more bashing for it. If a country wishes to act as the moral guardian of the world then it needs to uphold the highest possible standards, all the time.

Statements by the likes of Tom Ridge that torture might be permissable in certain circumstances, the allowance of evidence gained by torture in military tribunals, the now-infamous department of justice memo saying that the President could issue directives that superceded the anti-torture laws etc etc. Add to that the fact that restrictions brought in after the Abu-Ghraib affair have deliberately only restricted the army - the restrictions on CIA operatives have not been tightened at all and are still somewhat unregulated.

I think America has to take a serious look at itself - we expect things like this from immoral dictatorships but this is the US for crying out loud!

It seems that freedom, justice and legal principle in what some might call the world's greatest democracy are slowly being eroded by abstract concepts of faith, misinformation and knee-jerk reaction.

If the US continues to abandon its most basic principles in the interests of national security (which is a term so open to abuse in any case) then it will be forever diminished - its a slippery slope down the road from isolated cases of torture to a situation where they become more common-place and institutionalized.

[ 02-22-2005, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

02-22-2005, 07:11 PM	#6
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	So is this actually true then? I'd never heard about it before and was expecting denials but is this just common knowledge? Apparently Clinton started the programme but the Bush administration has vastly accelerated it but I'm always inclined to take things like this with a pinch of salt. Having said that, googling outsourcing torture does seem to pull up a lot of links. ----- Djinn: America gets the flack for things like this because the world expects better. Egypt, Morocco, Syria, and Jordan are well-known human rights abusers and really don't try to hide it. The US on the other hand claims to have the moral right to re-shape the world around its views and impose its own system of government and ethics on other countries - its only natural that when this moral high ground is taken that the US gets more bashing for it. If a country wishes to act as the moral guardian of the world then it needs to uphold the highest possible standards, all the time. Statements by the likes of Tom Ridge that torture might be permissable in certain circumstances, the allowance of evidence gained by torture in military tribunals, the now-infamous department of justice memo saying that the President could issue directives that superceded the anti-torture laws etc etc. Add to that the fact that restrictions brought in after the Abu-Ghraib affair have deliberately only restricted the army - the restrictions on CIA operatives have not been tightened at all and are still somewhat unregulated. I think America has to take a serious look at itself - we expect things like this from immoral dictatorships but this is the US for crying out loud! It seems that freedom, justice and legal principle in what some might call the world's greatest democracy are slowly being eroded by abstract concepts of faith, misinformation and knee-jerk reaction. If the US continues to abandon its most basic principles in the interests of national security (which is a term so open to abuse in any case) then it will be forever diminished - its a slippery slope down the road from isolated cases of torture to a situation where they become more common-place and institutionalized. [ 02-22-2005, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]