[Barry the Sprout]

I think it is quite consistent to say that things have changed but that occupation will not bring peace and democracy. To say that things are still as bad as when the country was run by the closest thing we've seen to a fascist dictator for years is just plain stupid. But on the other hand that doesn't mean that the occupying forces are exactly behaving either.

The fact of the matter is that most of the people against the war were against it because they were humanitarians opposed to people getting killed. That kind of pitted them against Saddam as well. But just because you're in favour of getting rid of something doesn't mean you're going to be in favour of bombing all and sundry to do so... The occupation has definately changed Iraq, and in many ways it has changed it for the better (although I imagine in many ways it's changed it for the worse). But whether or not it has changed does not mean we should be in favour of the war, or in favour of the occupation. The fact that progress has been so radically and consistently opposed by the occupation should vindicate those of us who felt that it wasn't going to happen in Iraq's interests.