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Old 09-03-2004, 12:22 PM   #8
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 53
Posts: 9,246
Quote:
Originally posted by Moiraine:

1.The first point to understand is that laicity at school is a very fundamental rule of the French republic. Meaning that school must be a neutral ground, where people from all cultural and religious and political and class backgrounds and beliefs can talk together and learn to live together.

2.Anyway, guys, I thought one's religious beliefs were in his or her heart and mind and soul. Not on his or her head ! What the law forbids is the EXTERNAL FLAUNTING of one's beliefs, not the beliefs themselves !
1.My issue is that it's not neutrality, but the imposition of secularism over all other worldviews. You see secularism as "neutral" yet it is actually just another worldview like any other.

Recent impositions of secularism were in the Soviet Union, China, East Germany and other communist authoritarian regimes, where secularism was the state worldview, and deviance from it was punishable by death, salt mines, persecution, imprisonment etc.

I see the ban as a step in that direction. True neutrality is not imposing or emphasising one view over another, not forcibly imposing a worldview as in these cases.

2.That depends on the religious belief though doesn't it? Certain religions have dietary requirements. If we force them into eating certain foods we deny them the right to live their beliefs. Some religions are yes, all about the heart and mind. Others are very strict behavioural codes. I knew of a guru who died of a heart attack because someone cut his hair while he was meditating. Through no fault of his own, he was "defiled", completely reversing the positives he perceived his meditations to have gained.

Therein lies the issue. Some faiths that have no dress code, or physical requirements are affected. But if a school has a short hair policy for males, a Sikh is horribly affected. If a school presents pork as a required meal, Jews and Muslims go hungry. If they have a headgear ban, Muslims, Sikhs, and Hassidic Jews are affected, while everyone else isn't either forced into choosing bewtween compromising or forced to leave the country.


Quote:
Last, allow me to say I had thought you Ironworks people would be ahead on understanding all I said above : are not all of you making compromises by abiding by the Ironworks rules in order to come here and talk with each others ? I find Ziroc's ban of religious discussions in here is quite in line with the French law, and for quite the same reasons. Maybe it is more my French cultural background that has so far made easy for me to get along in here more than my personal nature. Would at least show that the French way of raising its future citizens is not so bad after all, wouldn't you agree ? [/qb]
I would have to agree with your anology.... and that's enough said. A generalised law, does not equate generalised imposition or penalty.

[ 09-03-2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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