[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Yorick: A baby looks, acts, sounds and moves very differently to a 50 year old, yet do we suggest the two are not the same lifeform? A catarpillar becomes a butterfly. Does it suddenly become anything other than an insect while in the coccoon?

I see this as an irrelevant comparrison.

A foetus at the point of conception - whether you believe in a soul or not (irrelevent) is human life. A human lifeform AT THE POINT OF CONCEPTION,... CIRCUMSTANCE is all that changes it's substance. Time will propel the lifeform into full potential. But it will not be anything other than human.

I simply disagree with this. A single ovary or spermatazoid may become a human -- that does not mean it is one. For me, it is not human until some point. I place that point at the moment of brain activity. For me, it is obvious that at the blastula and gastrula stages, a fetus is still so far removed from human that it cannot be considered human. If it is not human, it is not a crime to kill it.

I stand by my assertions. No words on the internet erase the living breathing women I have encountered, who have deeply regretted their actions.

You and I simply have different experiences. I won't name the women by name and reveal their secrets -- obviously. Suffice to say my original statement stants.

200 women needing counselling for abortion is 200 too many.

I'll agree with this, even given the fact that 200 is an almost statistically irrelevant number.

Any sow can pop out a kid? That's laughable and offensive Timber.

Well, it was stated in an offensive way to invoke challenges. Nevertheless it is true. You certainly must agree that popping out a kid does not equal "parenting."

It's ludicrous for a male to comment on the ease of labour. You have no idea what it takes to bring a human life into the world, so why comment on how easy it is or isn't?

Along the same vein, why should you or I be posting at all? Regardless, I'm not saying labor is easy, I'm simply saying rearing the child is more important.

I'm sure she does a lot of good in the world

Thanks. I'll pass it along.

but a man could be doing the same thing. What she can do, that a man can never do, is bring a human life into the world.

May be true, but there is a primrose path here that leads to mysoginism, and I do not want to condone it.

Are you simply "another mouth to feed" Timber? Is that your assessment of your contribution to the planet.

No. But, I attribute my successes, however small they may be, in large part to good parenting -- which was my point.

Again, your views on life and the human race show a startling lack of esteem. Was your mothers creation a waste of energy? Are you a parasite on the planet and to society? Look at yourself and apply it to all humans. A life is worth unspeakable value.

I try not to be a waste of energy, though the jury is still out on that. I try not to make my mothers' creation a waste everyday. I try not to apply my experiences to all humans. I'll agree that a life is worth unspeakable value -- but that does does not speak to whatehr a given entity will feel that way.

At the end of the day, no-one on their death bed wishes they'd spent more time at work. More time putting criminals in prison, or filing lawsuits. FAMILY, time with family and loved ones ends up being what is held dearest.

Again, irrelevant But, to rebu it, I bet I will wish I'd spent more time at work.