[Skunk]

Originally posted by Yorick: Actually I have visited Dubai.

Then your eyes were closed to culture around you, or you would never have asked whether a french women could be prosecuted for not covering up.

Originally posted by Yorick: And you are advocating this? What is the difference, in principle to what the French ruling is?

Obviously I was not advocating Saudia Arabian law - I was merely bringing you up to date the state of play in the country.

As for the difference in in principle between the french ruling and current Saudi Arabian law, I thought that my text adequately explained this, but to be succinct:

The proposed French law is designed to INTEGRATE the foreign population and remove barriers (physical or otherwise) that prevent non-native french from participating fully in french society as EQUALS with full rights to practice whatever religion they so choose. The new law only affects those entering public buildings.

Saudi Arabian law is designed to SEGREGATE the foreign population and create barriers (both physical and otherwise) that prevents non-native Saudis from participating fully in Saudi society as EQUALS. It also hinders the right to practice religion and intrudes upon the individuals rights and freedoms both in private and in public - it does not simply limit itself to state owned buildings.

Originally posted by Yorick: Yeah we certainly should allow her to. She can make a choice. Men are allowed to wander around topless. Didn't you hear? It's now legal in New York. Impossible to prosecute a woman for doing exactly that.

Not entirely true. If the women opens up a fruit and veg shop and serves the customers topless she WOULD be charged in New York as it would be considered part of her business activity (which remains illegal).

Which brings me on to another point. Here in the Netherlands, prostitution is now legal. Should a professional Dutch prostitute go to New York it would be ILLEGAL for her to continue her profession. Her culture is therefore NOT being respected there - why not?

It seems that society has it limits to what it will allow those born in another culture to do - even in New York.


There is an important principle in a FREE society.
That is, that the exercise of your personal freedom should not over-ride the personal freedom of others nor endanger the life and limb of others.

Consider this in the context of the french ruling - where law makers have decided that society must be protected from adverse effects of an ever-growing fracture which has itself already lead to death, injury and destruction of property.
The new law does NOT prevent religions from being practiced, it does NOT prevent individuality (individuals are otherwise free to dress as they choose) and it does NOT treat one group differently from another.
All in all, it was a carefully considered measure to tackle an ever growing (and very severe) social problem.

Originally posted by Yorick: I think part of the subliminal issue is that France once had to defend against perpetual Islamic invasions from the Spanish Moors. Perhaps in the French psyche, this is perceived as another invasion of sorts. Cultural rather than with arms. By immigrants and refugees, rather than warriors. How do you erase hundreds of years of fear? Spain was ruled for 600 or more years by the Islamic Moors.

I **REALLY** don't think that the Moorish invasions of the 8th century had any bearing on public opinion today.


[ 02-13-2004, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]