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Skunk · 02-11-2004, 08:05 AM

I will probably fail in my efforts to make clear the reasoning behind the new french law but maybe I can give a different perspective to the issue.

When I was a kid, we HAD to wear a school uniform. If you refused to wear it, or a single item, or even refused to do up the top button on your shirt, the school was within its rights to send you home as being 'improperly dressed'.

Sounds draconian to those who never went through (and came out the other side) of the system. But it had very good reasons.

It stimulated unity - we were all the same. Take Harry (father a judge, mother a doctor). He's not short of cash - but he looks just the same as Larry (father a roadsweep, mother a cleaner).

Since no-one is allowed to wear sneakers - no child has to look foolish in front of his peers when they all arrrive in $500 dollar sneakers (and his only cost $30 dollars).

Likewise, you could identify with other members of the school whenever you saw them outside of the school (on a school day) - that added a positive dimension to the process of unity too.

For hundreds of reasons, it was a great system and it was a COMPULSORY system.

Throughout our lives, we are forced to wear uniforms of one sort or another in order to generate this unity.

When we highlight differences, that it the point when that society becomes fractured, when people begin to mistrust eachother and their motives.

They're not like us, they do X (insert as applicable) which is just plain weird/immoral/mad (delete as appropriate)

In France today, immigration came faster than integration. As a result, much of the islamic community lives in it's own islands in each city (usually dominating the worst sections).

Mistrust and misunderstandings have also helped to ensure a passive intolerance that has permeated society from childhood to old-age. Try finding a job when wearing a Sikh turban or an islamic hijab in France - and you'll have a harder time than someone of the same qualifications who doesn't.

All of this begins at school age. It's very hard to teach children that we are all basically the same, when the jews sit in one corner of the class, muslims in the second corner, Sikhs in the third, hindus in the fourth and aethiests in the middle.

It's like a prison where the blacks and whites huddle in corners of their own and if any of them chooses to talk to the other group, their own group starts questioning their loyalty What's wrong with your own kind
Well guess what - we're all basically the same kind - we just don't know it because we're too busy emphasising small differences. VISIBLE small differences which make the differences look larger than they really are.

And if you think that this is an extreme picture - you'd be wrong. It already exists (and I've certainly seen it in the school system in the Netherlands) and on the streets when the kids play. Hardly a white face amongst the morrocans and hardly a brown face amonst the white kids.

By now, I think that most of you know me well enough to know that I'm a staunch supporter of religious rights and will rush to defend islam from hate lies and muslims from abuse. But this law is not about abusing the rights of muslims or other religious groups.

The measure is designed to force INTEGRATION and REDUCE INTOLERANCE. It may seem harsh (especially in the beginning) but it is not out of proportion with the scale of the problem - which is severe.

In the long-term it will benefit the minority communities and will probably lead to a level of integration as seen in the UK within 20 years (which is a hell of a lot more advanced - but still far from perfect).

[ 02-11-2004, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

02-11-2004, 08:05 AM	#16
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 63 Posts: 1,463	I will probably fail in my efforts to make clear the reasoning behind the new french law but maybe I can give a different perspective to the issue. When I was a kid, we HAD to wear a school uniform. If you refused to wear it, or a single item, or even refused to do up the top button on your shirt, the school was within its rights to send you home as being 'improperly dressed'. Sounds draconian to those who never went through (and came out the other side) of the system. But it had very good reasons. It stimulated unity - we were all the same. Take Harry (father a judge, mother a doctor). He's not short of cash - but he looks just the same as Larry (father a roadsweep, mother a cleaner). Since no-one is allowed to wear sneakers - no child has to look foolish in front of his peers when they all arrrive in $500 dollar sneakers (and his only cost $30 dollars). Likewise, you could identify with other members of the school whenever you saw them outside of the school (on a school day) - that added a positive dimension to the process of unity too. For hundreds of reasons, it was a great system and it was a COMPULSORY system. Throughout our lives, we are forced to wear uniforms of one sort or another in order to generate this unity. When we highlight differences, that it the point when that society becomes fractured, when people begin to mistrust eachother and their motives. They're not like us, they do X (insert as applicable) which is just plain weird/immoral/mad (delete as appropriate) In France today, immigration came faster than integration. As a result, much of the islamic community lives in it's own islands in each city (usually dominating the worst sections). Mistrust and misunderstandings have also helped to ensure a passive intolerance that has permeated society from childhood to old-age. Try finding a job when wearing a Sikh turban or an islamic hijab in France - and you'll have a harder time than someone of the same qualifications who doesn't. All of this begins at school age. It's very hard to teach children that we are all basically the same, when the jews sit in one corner of the class, muslims in the second corner, Sikhs in the third, hindus in the fourth and aethiests in the middle. It's like a prison where the blacks and whites huddle in corners of their own and if any of them chooses to talk to the other group, their own group starts questioning their loyalty What's wrong with your own kind Well guess what - we're all basically the same kind - we just don't know it because we're too busy emphasising small differences. VISIBLE small differences which make the differences look larger than they really are. And if you think that this is an extreme picture - you'd be wrong. It already exists (and I've certainly seen it in the school system in the Netherlands) and on the streets when the kids play. Hardly a white face amongst the morrocans and hardly a brown face amonst the white kids. By now, I think that most of you know me well enough to know that I'm a staunch supporter of religious rights and will rush to defend islam from hate lies and muslims from abuse. But this law is not about abusing the rights of muslims or other religious groups. The measure is designed to force INTEGRATION and REDUCE INTOLERANCE. It may seem harsh (especially in the beginning) but it is not out of proportion with the scale of the problem - which is severe. In the long-term it will benefit the minority communities and will probably lead to a level of integration as seen in the UK within 20 years (which is a hell of a lot more advanced - but still far from perfect). [ 02-11-2004, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]