[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: [qb] Here, try this food.... aha! Did you like it? Could you please pay now!? Hardly.

Actually, that's quite common. Have you never had a free sample product and never bought the product as a result? I have (as many others have done) and the sampling system works or producers would have given it up years ago.
[/QUOTE]You completely missed my point.

The mp3 is not a SAMPLE, it is the ACTUAL PRODUCT. I am well aware of sampling products. I simply said, who offers something and then asks you to pay for it?

How ludicrous would it be to ask Chewbacca to pay for the mp3 he downloaded now that he's heard it? It defys reason.

Again, an mp3 is not a sample, it is the actual product. A sample would be one listen. Radio play for example is a sample. You don't own a copy of the product you can listen to at any time. When you purchase music, that is what you own. The ability to listen to it whenever you like.

How was this point missed?

While it is true that there is a hardcore of music lovers who willing to pay to hear unknown band, or to spend an evening listening to a band of unknown quality (where the venue has a reputation of billing decent artists), the vast majority of people will not. Most people hear of good bands by word of mouth and by hearing their music, either by the radio or when their friends play it to them.

You again completely missed the point that live shows promote albums. Completely ignored it. Singles on radio give an act expose. More singles = more albums. When you go to see a big band, they play the whole album. Songs from old albums. Album sales are built on album tours. It's a plain truth. No secret.

Look, I am getting sick of this discussion. Either do your research on the way the industry has worked until now or stop posting on this subject. I am not here to educate you on how the industry has worked.

The argument that mp3 sharing leads to increased live work is irrelevent. The overwhelming majority of albums are NOT released to generate live work. Live work is done to promote albums. That is the way it has been for decades. Since artists were given royalties.

Mp3 sharing is taking the PRODUCT. There is no point in me doing a tour of Ecuador to promote something anyone who has heard of me already owns. Ludicrous.

Think about it. International tours are few and far between in Australia because there are not enough record sales in Australia for a touring act to justify touring there. Common knowledge Skunk. Tours cost. Playing live costs. Travel, personelle. Touring costs more than albums do.

Please, do you research.

I am sure that you would agree with me that Austriaila is BRIMMING OVER with musical talent. Yet if you compare the number of successful artists (especially those independant of the big labels), the number of them is MUCH lower than that of Britain or the US (taking into account the population levels of course). The reason for that is because they are stifled - they are not getting the exposure that they might otherwise have had under a 'fair use' doctrine.

This is quite plainly unbelievable. I cannot believe you would attempt to correct me about my own vocation in my own country, contradicting my personal experiences.

I am in two minds about whether to even write a reply. I will be brief.

The Australian artist competes - in their own country - against product from America and England, that has vast amounts of money behind it. When I brought out my first record, it was taken to radio. At the same time, the same record company were taking U2s Actung Baby to radio, and Brian Adams "Waking up the Neighbours". Other companies and other artists were releasing product at the same time.

In all 50 singles a week were being sent to a handful of radio stations that added ONE SONG a week.

No prizes guessing what happened.

Yet, the same albums that I was competing against were what subsidised my album. Without the company that released the records into a very small market, the album would not exist.

We (the Australian music industry) faced off a law that attempted to completely erode copyright. It would have allowed parallell imports - bringing down CD sales, but more importantly removing the incentive for major record companies to invest in Australian music altogether.

Australian music simply doesn't have the market, hence the dollars, to generate anything near the publicity a record made offshore does.

There is the argument, that our comparitivly small population has a sucessful artistic export culture because of that competition. It means to simply get to level 1 we must have skills and product that compete with guys on level 58. At age 19, I was not competing with U2s first record, but U2s 7th.

It's a simple reality.

The situation would have been worse, far worse, had Mp3 theft been around then. The album would not have been made at all. I would not have learned what I did during that time. None of the music I have made since would exist.

In my car I have a few compiled CD's made from music that I have PURCHASED. If I were to take the originals out with me, that would mean that not only would I have on average around $1000 worth in my car. That's rather a lot of cash to leave lying around - so frankly, I wouldn't have them in the car.

Yeah it is. That's reality.

Is a DJ able to make safety copies of his records? What happens if his record collection is stolen. Yes it's a big deal.

I have had my car broken into. I have had CDs stolen. CDs are valuable yes.

The answer?
1. Don't keep your collection in your car.
2. Keep a small amount of CDs you are listening to in your car.
3. Get the collection insured.

Nothing gives you the right to violate copyright. Being able to listen to an artists work is a privilege, not a right. If you can;t take care of your collection, that's not the artists fault. The copyright law which protects him/her shouldn't be revoked just because you're worried about losing $1000. They can have millions taken from them in your world.

In any case, in your world the CDs have no value anyway. No music has value in your world. It can be attained by anyone who demands it, for no cost.

That is why this whole thing disgusts and angers me. You take what I bleed for, what takes so much personally to create, and reduce the whole thing to zero value.

That also means that my passengers would never again say: "Hey, that's cool, who is that band?," That has happened quite a few times as I'm more interested in indie music which rarely gets airplay or exposure on MTV etc - but if would never happen again if Ausrailian law ruled the day (because I AM a law-abiding citizen and I would obey the law even if I didn't agree with it).

Who cares? How many records does that sell? In the scheme of things I would prefer you never recommend my music to anyone of your friends, because you have no regard for it and would have no hesitation in stealing me blind. And yes I am independent now, no I have no record company at the moment, yes I need exposure, no I do not want nor care for your car-ride recommendation, if it's the result of you thumbing your nose at my copyright.

Do you know how many sales me giving away music online has resulted in?
None.
Do you know how much money I've made from peoples online recommendations? None. How much do I hope or expect to see from that? Nothing.
Am I bitter?
No.
There is no point. You've completely misjudged the plight of the modern musician.

THAT would be a step backwards - and we would end up living in a world where only artists like 'the spice girls', 'Back Street Boys', ' Take that' etc. (created and funded by the big labels who would be the only ones to have the finanical muscle to market them). ***shudder

Created by music "fans" that bought their records Skunk. All music companies do is present product to the public. The record buying public decides who makes it and who doesn't.

In any case, as I said. TASTE in no excuse for theft. You don't have the righ to refuse to pay for a meal you just ate, simply because you decided you didn't like it.

[ 02-09-2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]