[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Yorick: And I am saying desires are irrelevent. It is what people DO with those desires that defines their sexuality. Do they entertain them? DO they develop and pursue them? DO they act on them? Control of desire is a fundamental human necessity if one is to live with other humans, or survive through a winter.

I wouldn't say that our desires are irrelevant, but I DO agree it what we do with those desires that defines our sexuality.

At some point in our lives, each of us had to make the decision whether we were going to pursue sexual relations with the opposite gender, same gender, or both. This is part of the reason that I say homosexuality is a choice. I do not believe it is genetic code that the individual has no control over and - try as they might - science and medicine cannot conclusively prove that it is. They may find similarities in the genetic code of homosexuals, but there is no single gene (or chain of genes) that are exclusive to homosexuals.

As for the argument that "homosexuality is natural because it occurs throughout the animal kingdom", all I can say is that I feel I have a little more control over my sexual desires than a dog or a monkey does. However, if you insist on using the animal kingdom as "proof" that homosexuality is a natural pre-disposition, then please show me examples of ANY animal choosing a "life partner" of the same gender.

As for human sexuality, we all have desires. For some the desires for a same-sex partner are stronger than for others. But it is still up to the individual to choose whether they will act on those desires or not. As a heterosexual, I am strongly attracted to women. But as a married man, I have taken a vow to limit my sexual desires to just one woman. I still find other women attractive and I still find some of them sexually attractive, but I make a choice to not act on those desires. If I were to go along with the theory that my sexuality is genetically ingrained and cannot be controlled, then I would be having sex with every woman that I could. But as Yorick keeps pointing out, we all have control over our sexual desires.

If a man desires another man, he still has to make a choice to act upon that desire. He may choose to do that, or he may choose to try and overcome (or ignore) that desire. Either way, the choice belongs to the individual.

So WHY do some men desire other men and some women desire other women. I firmly believe in the "nurture" side of the argument. I will concede that the individual may not believe or feel they ever "chose" to be homosexual and I feel the "decision" is often a subconscious one, based on events or circumstances that may have occurred when they were too young to even remember them. But I simply do not believe they are "born homosexual".

As for "society brainwashing" the individuals, that is pure nonsense. Yes, there ARE certain social stigmas attached to homosexual behavior..however,those stigmas are NOT universal. San Francisco is the obvious example where homosexuals face far less social stigma than in other parts of the country, but it certainly isn't the ONLY place. ALL major cities have shops, bars, and other gathering places that cater primarily to the gay/lesbian crowd. All of these areas allow gays and lesbians to express their sexuality without ANY social stigma being foisted upon them. Again, as Yorick pointed out, the individuals determine the rules of their society.

And finally, on the subject that homosexual cannot change their desires or behavior. We've already been given a couple of examples based on first hand knowledge, but there is another case that I think almost all of us are familiar with.

During the Presidential race of 2000, Al Gore showed his support for the gay/lesbian movement. He promised that he would allow Ellen Degeneras and Anne Heche to be married in the White House if he became President. As many of you know, Ellen and Anne were a very "high profile" lesbian couple at the time. However, Anne has since "broken up" with Ellen and decided to enter a heterosexual relationship. She married a man and they now have a child. And by all accounts from interviews I've read, Anne is very happy in her new relationship. Her homosexuality was not ingrained in her genetic code. Instead, it was a rebellious action against her father and the things he did during her childhood.

So gays and lesbians can "change" and/or "control" their sexual desires.