Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
But that's the whole problem. Look, either imprisonment is worse or it's not. If you think it's worse than death, than refuse to imprison people. If you don't think it's worse, then don't try to give a pro DP person some BS argument about how bad sitting in prison is.
Even with this post, you seem to hem and haw. "We argue prison is worse because it will convince people, but many of us don't believe it, but I do, but it's not the reason I'm against the DP." Rambling a little, isn't it?
Here, let me point out your logical blunder:
1. Killing someone is a horrible punishment.
2. Imprisoning them is worse.
3. Ergo, the government can imprison, but not kill....
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....wait.... no that's not right. But, it's what you said.
I just want to see a non-DP argument that does hinge on "It is wrong to kill." Because it is also "wrong to imprison" and "wrong to take money (fines)." Soceity can levy punishments that are things that are wrong for us to do to each other, else how would they "punish." I dare you to find me one instance of a criminal punishment that is something that is not "wrong" for us to do to each other. Ergo, of course it is true that "It is wrong to kill," but that is meaningless in distinguishing why this one punishment gets a special place of honor as "prohibited."
Now, if you are into the "levels of wrong" and that killing is a worse wrong, fine, you've staked your position. However, don't lie to me by contradicting yourself and saying "but prison's worse." BS. Cause if it is, either it too should be prohibited, or both it and DP should be allowed. Any punishment of a higher magnitude than a "prohibited" punishment would certainly falter.
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Ahh, you see, but I don't think jails should be places of punishment, but places of rehabilitation, or, in some instances, to protect others from criminals which cannot be rehabilitated. So, you see, the way prisons are right now is, at least it would be for me, a worse punishment than death, but because I believe in rehabilitation I see the death penatly as something more wrong than imprisonment. And even if I didn't believe in the rehabilitation, I would still see the death penalty as "more wrong" because of things it does to other people. Because of the message it sends. Who will decide what crimes deserve death? Why do some people deserve death more than others (e.g. poor people)? Who will decide who deserves death? If "our" laws are allowed to decide when somebody should die, then why not other laws (e.g. religious)? Who are we then do decide that those laws are wrong? And not to mention the people which have to do the killing. Sure, you press a button and the person dies, but imho you cannot be a very healthy person to be able to sleep at night knowing you've participated in a killing, no matter how horrible the person was. And how about the prisoner's family? When will they get their revenge on the state? Surely it feels worse knowing the person is dead than knowing the person is in prison, where you can see them at least once in a while. At least that's how I would feel if, for example, it was my sister.
That is how I feel the system is today, in places where there still is the death penalty. But, if it was up to me, prisons would try to rehabilitate criminals, and not make them worse and traumatise them.
So I'm not really "BSing" since I don't believe in the "penalty system" as it is today. I'm sure I'll get a lot of complaints about this, but that is what I believe.
[ 12-02-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Spelca ]