Quote:
Originally posted by Chewbacca:
More expressions of my panthiestic thinking....
...Refering to a previous thought...God, the whole infinite universe, thinks of itself in finite ways for various reasons that can be considered. One reason, this pantheist beleives, is because being infinite and omnipresent is mutually exclusive to being finite and simply present. One is inconcievable to another. Try conceiving infinity in a lifetime, it can only be impossible unless your individual consciousnous spends eternity doing it.
The infinite universe, so completely knowing itself as one, created the temporal and finite reality as we know it so that it could creatively explore what it was like to percieve reality while 'forgetting' being infinite and omnipresent.
The catch is, how does a infinite and omnipresent mind "forget" it is infinite and omnipresent? That answer is creativity. God created the finite and temporal reality that we know in order to expirience "seperate" awareness therefore creating a reality that allowed for "forgetting". A reality that made truly concieving being infinite infintely temporarily impossible.
By creating this reality of percieved seperateness, God made it possible for seperate awarenesses, individuals, to give and receive love.
God made it possible to disbelieve God.
God made it possible for life to exist in ways that it cannot if it's knowable defintion was purely infinite and omnipresent.
God made it possible for the universe to hold mystery, revelation, and beauty to behold.
Ect.
God made finite in order to love, be creative, to live, and to think in different terms than infinite, yet at the same time still being infinite and omnipresent. At the same time loving and creating and thinking in the inconcievable way that only infinite omnipresence can.
Participating in the expirience of oneness, expiriencing love not only with God, but as part of God and all of interconnected existence, with individuals near and far, is so beyond a crude example like "having a wank with itself" that I do not have space for the words to describe how beyond, for the words would go on for infinity. 
I must add, I am not trying to prothlysize, or debate the meaning of God. I am offering a glimpse at what a 'devout' self-taught and self-proclaimed Pantheist believes about the nature of the universe simply because it is a distinct alternative to the debasing simplification that the universe is 'having a wank with itself'.
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Again, I have problems with this on a number of levels.
Firstly, your perception may be correct for you, but not for me. In a physical sense I perceive myself as finite, yes. However in a life sense I perceive of myself as infinite. I perceive of myself as an eternal awareness that will live forever. That is my perception of self. Yours is clearly different. It does not seem that your worldview allows for my selfperception however. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Secondly, again I ask, what is the greater achievement?
To intentionally forget oneself so one can rediscover oneself.
or
To create other awarenesses to discover and have relationship with oneself.
With Pantheism, I see no motive for creation. Why would a perfect God do this forgetting? Wouldn't an omniscient God already know what it is to rediscover oneself? To me it makes life purposless and bleak. Honestly. I confronted pantheism and gave it serious thought 14 years ago. The prospect of it being reality filled me with such bleakness, lonliness and purposelessness.
It's intentional limitation for what purpose? To rediscover what one already knows??
Compare it to the worldview that God created everything as an expression of love, and created human souls to experience that love, and give it back in return. The universe is created as both a means for discovery and to simply be enjoyed. Every discovery is subsequently new, not reclaiming lost ground.
I use myself and my understanding of what it is to create as a litmus test. As an artist, I get most enjoyment when others appreciate my art. I can get self satisfaction sure... but more satisfaction comes from sharing it.
So again, I reason that a God that CAN do anything, WOULD do the greater acheivement with the most gain.
The God I believe in is beyond limitation. The God I believe in expressed and loves, and I newly discover, receive and then give love back.
[ 11-05-2003, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]