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Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
quote:
I have pragmatic certainty. If you don't believe in pragmatic certainty, fine. I'm not attempting to sway you. Don't aks me to change my opinion merely because you can't accept it.
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I think you are merely being asked to recognize it is opinion not irrefutable fact. And, it would seem you have.
Else I'm allowed to deem the nonexistence of God a fact and all this talk of imaginative tales and writings about an entity created out of our sheer ego, inability to comprehend the enterinity of the universe, and terror of death to be no more than drivel. See? That doesn't work too well, now, does it? [/QUOTE]I think this is a lot of hoohar over nothing. If there was no doubt it would not be FAITH now would it. Sheesh. Pragmatic certainty is what I have given that I can only prove I am self aware. It's no suprise. No shock horrors there.
Sultan, nothing in your posts have changed the FACT that to date, no other work in history is as validated and verified as the Bible. The historical books in the bible are supported by archaeology and the histories of other nations. The scientific proclaimations made before the knowledge was verifiable, have found to be correct each time. Countless prophecies have come to pass, including roughly 100 that Jesus fulfilled, plus a few that Jesus himself predicted.
The bibles life-coaching and cause/effect is proven to work in the lives of the people that follow it, from the Jews keeping the law of Moses, to Christians who decide to follow it's recommendations. It is constantly being assessed by those who follow it's words. Further proof is the continued growth of the Christian faith.
Even Islam, another growing faith, agrees with much of the bibles truth.
Whether you dispute it's theological conclusions or not, the fact remains it is a work that is both historical and impacts people daily.
The reason for bringing all this up, was because Chewbacca chose to elevate his own religion, saying it contains roots far older and possessing illuminative clarity far beyond the bible.
Yet, I am yet to hear what that work is.
Of course it must be a work he is comparing to the bible, for the bible is not a religion. Otherwise, how can you compare a religion to a work? Faith is a result of the Bible.
Chewbacca, I fail to see any insult. You have mentioned your beliefs around paganism, shamanism, Christ-conciousness et al. From your words here it seems you have amalgamated a number of belief systems. Your hostility is unbecoming. I fail to see any insult, because no insult was intended. I'm simply calling it how I see it. Honest appraisal. If I'm incorrect, please show me. I do wish to have dialogue with you. If you'll remember, I did try and have a coffee with you in Boston (where we would NOT have discussed religion..
) So do fill me in. If there is a text you follow, I would honestly like to know it.
I have read most religious works, or at least about them. From Greek, Norse and Celtic mythology (containing their religious beliefs) to the Qu'ran, parts of the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita, to Buddhas sayings and life story, to the Tao, and some of Confucious proverbs.
I don't incorporate their theology into mine however, because of the complete nature of the worldviews.
Only last week I had a three hour conversation with a guy in our church, who has accepted Jesus, even been baptised recently, yet holds to a pantheistic worldview. We covered this exact subject.
My entire theory from reason for existence, reason for pain, relationship, love, everything... is dependent on the belief that there is a Creator Awareness, a God sperate from this creation.
I reason, that if God is truly omnipotent, and CAN create even one other awareness, one other soul that is not him, so that he can give and receive love - through free will - why would he NOT do that? Why would he only create parts of himself to love himself?
Pantheism theory to me makes it all seem the universal everything is having a wank, when it/we could be making love to a partner. What is more satisfying? Exploring yourself or you exploring them, and them you?
Therefore, I reject reincarnation, because that theory originated in and is heavily dependent on a pantheistic theory. I reject theories about Jesus simply being the first human to realise his godhood for the same reason. Additionally, I've gone over his words with a fine tooth comb to see if he meant that, and I have not found any indication that is the case.
As unhip or uncool as it may be, I honestly agree with the assertions of the Christian Church about who Jesus is and was. It is a complete belief system, centred on him being God, being the only "son of God", and as a sinless being, taking on human sin and dying for me, you, everyone.
It enables relationship with God, but offers a way out if you choose to reject him. It gives reason to sin and imperfection. Through forgiveness God is able to show even more love.
All the parts of the theology are connected to the other parts. None exist in isolation.
[ 10-28-2003, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]