[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Yorick LOL! If I thought everyone believed the same as me, I wouldn't be discussing!

You fail to grasp the point. Your argument is for making (keeping) suicide illegal. The basis of this argument is based upon your personal beliefs, and creating or enforcing a law that only takes into account your beliefs deprives another of their right to believe as they wish. You are in effect stating that your opinion weighs more than theirs.

Originally posted by Yorick O.k. so could you explain to me the state of existence in which any individual is seperated from their beliefs? Absolute objectivity?

I never stated that an individual is capable of absolute objectivity. However, I am saying that all people need to learn how to set aside their personal and religious beliefs when determining courses of action that have a direct effect upon society.

Originally posted by Yorick I'm only a human, and like you cannot seperate myself from my subjectivity. YOUR beliefs are all over your exaltation of empirical facts for example. Over your self defeating belief that one should seperate themselves from their beliefs when determining law.

You’re assuming that my opinions in this thread are directly related to my personal beliefs. In fact, my personal opinions on the effects of suicide drastically differ from those based upon empirical data. However, when determining a course of action that others must follow, I do not allow my beliefs to impede making a decision that takes into account the beliefs of others. So in this case, no, I am not like you.

Originally posted by Yorick Why don't you take a leaf out of your own book and realise not everyone believes the same as YOU. Not everyone believes in LAW. Every heard of ANARCHISM. Or crime or vigilanteism for that matter? A persons beliefs directly influence their approach to matters of law, even the concept of law itself. It cannot be any other way. We are subjective beings.

As I have stated, my opinion in this matter is not based upon my beliefs, instead I base my opinion knowing that others hold a different opinion than I do. You are right in saying that a person’s beliefs influence matters pertaining to laws. However, there are people who are able to understand the difference between an opinion based on their beliefs and an opinion that takes into account others beliefs.

Originally posted by Yorick As to "forcing will" you have totally ignored the concept of LAW your are exalting. Law is exactly some humans excercising their beliefs of right and wrong over others. By what right do we take away a persons freedom simply because they perform an action we other humans deem "unacceptable"? Police enforce the will of some over the will of others. People exerting will over others occurs every day. Influence, persuasion, force, coercion. Look around you.

You are making a grievous assumption here concerning my usage of the word Law. You seem to think laws are made to limit the actions of another individual. I, however, think laws are there to protect our personal freedoms. Politicians and religious leaders have taken the concept of law too far and corrupted laws in order to control a populace. Just because they use laws in this manner does not mean that I need to accept their methods.

When used in this way, laws do not force another’s will upon anyone, but they provide protection from having another person force their will upon you.

As to people using influence, persuasion, and coercion to force their will against you, ultimately, if physical force is removed from the equation, the choice is still yours to do as you please.

Originally posted by Yorick What reality are you living in that this simple fact has eluded you? You are not holding any moral highground here. You are doing exactly the same thing you are deriding me for doing.

I don’t remember claiming to be on any moral high ground. As point in fact, one has to believe in some structure of morals in order to do so and I am sure my morals do not match that of those around me in all cases. As such, it becomes counter intuitive to even mention morals in the discussion.

I can also state with absolute certainty that my argument does not compare to yours at all. Your argument on this topic is based upon your personal beliefs while my argument is not. This alone removes any possibility of comparison based on the composition of our arguments.

The simple fact is suicide does not infringe on anyone’s personal rights. In addition, a person committing suicide is in no way forcing their beliefs or will upon another.

In another posted you state that another person is small-minded. I leave you with a question:

Is the person who believes others should live and be controlled according to his views small minded, or the skeptical person who questions the validity of another through a medium that allows for supreme ambiguity?