[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [QB] quote: Originally posted by Yorick: One more thing... what the heck is this? What "experts" are you talking about? Who are you speaking about? What are you calling "an expert". Name them and where they're disagreeing with me.

I'm referring to all the texts cited in the "bible contradictions" thread that you summarily dismissed because they were not the poster's original opinions.
[/QUOTE]You seem to forget that the "expert" who wrote those "contradictions" was a musician... like myself, who had less experience within christian music, bible colleges and the church than I have had. Why is this fellow considered by you an expert and I am not?

Secondly, they were not contradictions that Chewbacca had discovered himself or even read, Had he stumbled upon them naturally, he would have found no contradiction in 90% of them. In actual fact, all the contradictions were explained. I began by mowing through them before finding salf a dozen websites that refuted them.... saving my time. A couple of the "contradictions" were so brazenly odd, that no contradiction could be found to refute. The writer has ignored attempts to get him to elaborate on them.

quote: Besides, what has that got to do with anything? You're automatically dismissing my position because.... I'm here? Why? Because I'm talking to you on the net?

I'm not dismissing your position. I'm whining that you will dismiss mine if they are not based on my personal experience or knowledge but rather gained through secondary sources.[/QUOTE]If you're going to argue that a film sucks, make sure you watch it. It's not too much of a request. I will dismiss the opinion of someone who bags the bible when they haven't read it. It's a foolish thing to do pure and simple.

quote: How small minded.

Thanks. I try.[/QUOTE]It's the "them" mentality. That it's always someone else who is an expert or a sucess or big or effective or whatever, instead of us, me, you. That is small minded in that it is disempowering and limits potential. There is no reason why someone on this board couldn't change the world. That is larger mindedness. POSSIBILITY.

quote: My opinions co-align with Cereks who is one of the few on this board who's read the bible in depth. Why is it not possible that Cerek or myself are actually "experts" choosing to discuss online for example? You've automatically excluded that possibility whatsoever.

I am not summarily dismissing your points, or Cerek's (I don't mess with barbarians ). I am just arguing that for me your opinion, or Cerek's, are opinions that I factor in with OTHER opinions from learned texts.[/QUOTE]No you specifically said you regard these mysterious "other experts" as more knowledgable. That was what I took issue with.

quote: What possible reason do you have for dismissing my opinions as being any less knowledgeable than anyone elses? And why even throw that in in such snide fashion? Where does that get us?

I wasn't saying you were not an expert. As I mentioned in the bible contradiction thread, however, I probably won't give your opinion as much credence as a theologian's with letters like Ph.D. backing them up. Sorry, as a lawyer, I've found that letters behind a name make an opinion more "expert." No offense is intended. Surely you will recognize that SOMEONE out there knows more than you about the bible.[/QUOTE]Of course, and I named C.S.Lewis - who had no theology degree, yet who is arguably the most influencial Christian writer in the modern era.

Bear in mind I have TAUGHT at Bible colleges in three countries.

As a rule America seems to emphasise college education and letters after peoples names. Hence the internet colleges that sell meaningless degrees.

The letters mean nothing. What you do with them means everything.

I'm a self taught musician who didn't go to music college and yet have been more sucessful than 99% of musicians. Similarly, my first bible college was the family dinner table.

But this is not about me.... it is about the notion that for some reason, THEY, must be more knowledgeable than someone here. It's most odd.

quote: Well here's news!! I happily admit that someone like C.S.Lewis is a wiser man than I. I go to church to hear words from a wiser man than I. What does that prove? I still read the bible for myself if he says something I had no understanding of. I still read the source work for myself if a preacher more "expert" than myself quotes it in church.

Again, I think you are reading things into what I'm saying that I do not mean. Your personal reading and knowledge is valuable, and I won't deny that.

What you are advocating is lunacy. If I accepted your limitational viewpoint, I would still be in my fathers church, with all his intepretations, not my own, getting spoonfed all my beliefs. My father is an "expert" trained in Hebrew and Koine Greek, and with decades more bible reading, and teaching and preaching under his belt than I do. But I don't feel "inferior" or that my contrasting opinions are even wrong by simple virtue of his "expertise". I read the bible for myself, decide for myself, and have a personal ongoing relationship with God.

That's all well and good... for you. But if I or someone else cites your father or another expert to refute a statement you make, please don't come back at us saying since it's not our personal knowledge it means nothing.

All in all, I think you read an insult where I didn't mean one.[/QUOTE]I stand by what I've said.