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Skunk · 08-22-2003, 10:56 PM

I have a lot of sympathy for Israeli's - I believe strongly that they have a right to the state of Israel as created in 1948 - I just think that they don't have a right to anyone else's country.

They were given a vast expanse of land to establish a nation. Let them keep it, let them defend it. But don't let them expand it by force - others have a right to their own land too.

I don't blame Israel for the 1948 war - and I don't blame the Arabs either. The UN was and remains totally at fault for this mess - they never considered how the Arabs would react to having vast swathes of their land confiscated without recompense.

Israel has an arrogant attitude towards its neighbours because, as a result of its backing from the US, it is more powerful than them. I can also understand a 'siege mentality' from being surrounded by nations which still views the land upon which Israel stands to be their own. That's hard to live with.
But Israel doesn't help because it always ignores the interests of not only its neighbours but just about every other country (with the exception of the US).

What happened with the 1967 water project was a classic example of this - we'll just take the water and to hell with even asking to discuss a fair arrangement to share. Or indeed the example of the assassinations in Europe - to hell with submitting the evidence to the European governments and getting these guys extradited - we'll just send someone in to murder them.

Long term peace starts at the negociation table - the Arab league made a serious offer to Israel four years ago:
"Quit the occupied territories and we will recognise the state of Israel"

That was a major concession on their part - and had Israel accepted, it would have marked the normalisation of relations with its neighbours - but it refused. Why did they refuse?? It would have cost the state of Israel *nothing* to accept the offer and Israel would have had everything to gain from it.

Look at the 'roadmap for peace' - several nations spent the better part of four years of haggling and discussions to come up with the plan. It was judged by all (the US included) to be a fair and just settlement to both sides. The Palestinians accepted the document (with gritted teeth) - Israel tabled over 100 amendments...

So to sum up, I believe that Israel has a right to defend its borders - but I do not believe it has a right to extend them. I also believe that its habit of acting unilaterally in regional issues to be arrogant and its inability to accept compromise to be unreasonable. Finally, if Israel wants to treat 'terrorists' in a brutal fashion - that's understandable. But Israel treats all Palestinians as terrorists and therefore subjects all of them to brutal treatment - and that I find unacceptable.

08-22-2003, 10:56 PM	#86
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 63 Posts: 1,463	I have a lot of sympathy for Israeli's - I believe strongly that they have a right to the state of Israel as created in 1948 - I just think that they don't have a right to anyone else's country. They were given a vast expanse of land to establish a nation. Let them keep it, let them defend it. But don't let them expand it by force - others have a right to their own land too. I don't blame Israel for the 1948 war - and I don't blame the Arabs either. The UN was and remains totally at fault for this mess - they never considered how the Arabs would react to having vast swathes of their land confiscated without recompense. Israel has an arrogant attitude towards its neighbours because, as a result of its backing from the US, it is more powerful than them. I can also understand a 'siege mentality' from being surrounded by nations which still views the land upon which Israel stands to be their own. That's hard to live with. But Israel doesn't help because it always ignores the interests of not only its neighbours but just about every other country (with the exception of the US). What happened with the 1967 water project was a classic example of this - we'll just take the water and to hell with even asking to discuss a fair arrangement to share. Or indeed the example of the assassinations in Europe - to hell with submitting the evidence to the European governments and getting these guys extradited - we'll just send someone in to murder them. Long term peace starts at the negociation table - the Arab league made a serious offer to Israel four years ago: "Quit the occupied territories and we will recognise the state of Israel" That was a major concession on their part - and had Israel accepted, it would have marked the normalisation of relations with its neighbours - but it refused. Why did they refuse?? It would have cost the state of Israel nothing to accept the offer and Israel would have had everything to gain from it. Look at the 'roadmap for peace' - several nations spent the better part of four years of haggling and discussions to come up with the plan. It was judged by all (the US included) to be a fair and just settlement to both sides. The Palestinians accepted the document (with gritted teeth) - Israel tabled over 100 amendments... So to sum up, I believe that Israel has a right to defend its borders - but I do not believe it has a right to extend them. I also believe that its habit of acting unilaterally in regional issues to be arrogant and its inability to accept compromise to be unreasonable. Finally, if Israel wants to treat 'terrorists' in a brutal fashion - that's understandable. But Israel treats all Palestinians as terrorists and therefore subjects all of them to brutal treatment - and that I find unacceptable.