Quote:
Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna:
So I am just supposed to throw out the "All humans have 32 chromosomes" and replace that bit of scientific fact with a "Because god says so"??
I must have missed the part about the fertility clinic in the bible. Think about it logicaly for just 1 second. There has never been a single case of spontaneous pregnancy in the history of all humanity. Since the first monkey learned to walk up right all the way up untill the present time it has always taken a sperm cell and an egg cell to create a human. I just cant see how people can just disregard facts and replace them with a "God can do anything" sticker.
originaly by: Yorick
quote:
How is Van Goughs self portrait on canvass a human? It's a painting in the image of Van Gough. Heck you would look at it and say "it's Van Gough."
But it doesn't make the person Vincent Van Gough, a canvass painting, nor his self portrait, a human.
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The biggest problem with this analogy is that paintings dont walk and talk , but people do. If we are made in the image of god then shouldnt we be able to do the things that god does?? We can walk ,talk, feel, think,and create. Just like god does. [/QUOTE]I don't understand you logic Hunter. You're arguing points that are not allowing for my different worldview. Our point of reference is totally different.
Let me clarify my position.
1.You cannot limit God. You cannot limit a being that creates light, thought, philosophy, mathematics, gravity, oxygen, trees, life and water.
This is my belief. That the Creator is beyind limitation. As such, using the limitations of humans to back up a point of yours is futile. It's like me using the bible to convince you of truth. Your point of reference is different.
2.Humans have a soul. Just as we are fully human physically with an eternal soul, so I believe Jesus was fully human, but with the divine soul. He was God within his own artwork.
3. Your quote here :
"Think about it logicaly for just 1 second. There has never been a single case of spontaneous pregnancy in the history of all humanity." is quite odd considering THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. It has never happened before. The very aspect that makes the situation what it it, is what you are using to suggest it didn't happen. As though the uniqueness of a situation is proof the situation could not have happened.
I wonder what would have happened to the Wright borthers if people took that mentality. "No you couldn't have flown. Thnk about it logically for a second. There has never been a single case of humans flying in all human history".
So either you believe the virgin birth or not. Either you accept the word of those of the time that she was made pregnant without intercorse, after a vision from God, and the then remarkable occurences that happened to her son, including the flight to Egypt etc. Or you don't. Simple. Believe or don't. Trying to use the actual circumstance itself as proof it couldn't happened is self imploding.
4.The painting. Try seeing the analogical aspect for a second.
An artists painting is his artwork. If he paints an image of himself in that painting, it is just that. An image, not a complete replication of himself. Now, obviously we are more than a painting, but so too is God more than creation!! Using human limitation to make a point, when we believe God is outside that is futile. So fine, can a paining walk, talk etc? No it is confined to TWO DIMENSIONS. We humans are confined to FOUR DIMENSIONS. The Christian belief is that God is OUTSIDE TIME. Outside the constraints of the fourth dimension. As he is omnipresent, and can exist as Spirit inside believers, he is not subject to the other three dimensions either.
He is not confined to the parameters of his artwork, just like a painter is not subject to the parameters of his artwork. Such is the allegorical analogy.
Hence, yes God can do anything. If he can make the rules, he can break them.
Either that or we are simply unaware of how to work within the laws he;s already set in place. Writers like Anges Sanford, believe that every "miracle" is occuring within Gods laws and frameworks, we simply don't understand how to work within those laws enough.
We believe Jesus walked on water because twelve or more eyewitnesses saw it. One of the eyewitnesses went out and walked on water as well. Albeit for a few seconds.
Do you believe that with faith you could do the same?
I do. I believe that if I had absolute certainty, and no doubt, I could walk on water. I also KNOW that I will never have such absolute faith and certainty, so it will never happen. I believe the only reason Peter walked on water for that short while, was because he had Jesus in front of him doing it. As soon as he became aware of his situation, he sank.
I believe there is more to my existence than what I can explain, than what I see and experience, and what I will ever know. I can live in a realm where some things do not make sense. I can live in a world where I do not have to fit everything into a small box of immediate human comprehension. Some things will be explained as life progresses, just as germs were discovered, and planets. Some things will never be explained.
Such is living life with an open mind, without the need to control everything around me.