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Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Great way to cut through the fat and make a point, Donut. It is true, the Natural/unnatural argument was about whether homosexuality was "natural," but somewhere along the way go flipped on its ear to become a discussion of how completely "natural" behaviors are eschewed by the "higher minded" human species.
On that note, I'd like to comment to John D., Morainne (what a way to escape a debate  ), and Yorick. Yes, humans are dominant. No, they are by and large not responsible. And, while they have developed differently than other animals, there is no reasonable argument they are "better," "more advanced," "superior," or "more evolved." In fact, they may be inherently lesser, as humans are capable of deliberate evil, whereas all other species are basically instinctual and, ergo, innocent. I certainly think Dolphins are socially, and perhaps intellectually, superior.
Tho opposable thumb and oversized brains are great tools, but we have turned them by and large toward more evil ends than good ends. Maybe we have used them to make some great advances for the species, but we have also used them to subjigate a large percentage of the species. And, all the while we have been decimating other species.
Anyway, I know this may bother a lot of (most of) you folks, but I just wanted to point out that I take exception to all of the "superiority" talk when it comes to humans. I think we are at best slightly inferior and, at worse, not worth anything much at all.
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Humans are not by and large responible? What do you mean by that? If humans are not responible then why did you even bother learning eviromental law to argue cases before Dolphin's courts? Or maybe the Grasshopper's courts.
As for the superiority of humans over the animals, I don't see many computers designed by dolphins, have dolphins or any other animal come up with even the most basic rules of math? What animal has the ability to wage war on man because they want too? What animal has the ability to invent the DMV (Dept. of Motor Vehicles) and it's glorious lines? What animal cares for it's sick or weak? "Hale" the "Majestic" wolf routinely attacks and kills the weaker members of the pack. What animal has sculpted a statue? created a painting? And don't give me the Crap about that ape some animal Pshycologist gave a paint brush to and some colors then the pshycologist called what the ape did art. "Hale" I have a dog that I could give paint brushes and paint to but would that make it art not on your life. What animal has the ability to convey ideas, concepts, feelings other then the base instincts of food, territory, and the desire to pass on thier genes?
I would agree that most people aren't worth squat, but that's not my job to decide which ones are and which ones aren't, though I would be happy to accept the job if you people wanted me to take it.