Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
I was noticing a prevailing trend regarding your perception of society. It was affecting your ability to look honestly and without bias at your own society. As an outsider coming into America, the puritanical ideals - good and bad - are plainly obvious. I've been on the receiving end of some some socially rperessive ideas that have nothing to do with Christianity per se and everything to do with the puritanical foundations.
You also had earlier expressed a disbelief in the idea of collective psychology. If you fail to accept that reality, then it follows that you wouldn't accept realities like Judeo-Christian social foundations.
This has nothing to do with religious belief, and everything to do with anthropolopgy and sociology. That collective psychology exists is indisputable. It's historicly proven that the past affects a nations present mindset.
Your bias appeared to be from a desperate need to seperate your own values from Christianity. I have no doubt that your personal views are removed from Christianity and that you've honestly sought to find morality with foundations outside the Judeo-Christian worldview. You are however a product of your society, and your negative reaction away from the foundations is alone a result of your society. You cannot reject that which you are unaware of.
I mean no disrespect, and if I am offending you I apologise unreservedly and will cease talking anymore about the subject. I do not seek to be enemies with you, and wish to voice my respect for you, however much we may disagree.
Peace.
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Yorick.
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Actually Yorick I am a devote beleiver in Jungian Psycology, the Archtypes of the collective unconscious as well as the collective unconcious itself. I already revealed to you my knowledge of sociology and my veiws on ever changing society.
My personal values include unconditional love, forgiveness, tolerance, personal resposibility as well as civic duty to name a few. I have sought to find morality from the full range of human expression and expirience.
I do seperate myself from christianity for very distinct reasons, but I do not seperate myself from specific values I believe Christ represents. Christ is a consciousnous of pure unconditional love and peace, an archtype of the collective unconscious that represents those ideals and the potential for every person to know them,nurture them, and quietly share them by merely being.
If you look on the religious tolerance thread, one of the last posts includes a description of Unitarian Christian ideals with regards to Jesus the person and those are very similar to mine.
I think my beliefs with regards to the basis of my society are sound, I did not say that Christian ideals had nothing to do with the basis for American society, just that its is not an absolute in the equation. There is a principle involved. Too much I have heard people use this claim of christian roots to serve their own purposes, whether it is banning gay marriage or the ten commandments in the courtroom, or under god in the pledge.
For one group to claim to be the founder of the nations ideals to me is nothing but pure egotism and a slap in the face to the diverse and free society that exists here because of those very ideas. As much as you discredit puratinism, those puritans did and still do call themselves christians, and they persecute people with differing beliefs with zest and fervor.
The simple fact that congress shall make no laws to establish religion is a cornerstone of American ideals, contrast this with organized christianity through out the ages and how it has done so much to make itself the only one true religion and it should be clear to you why I must disagree that America has or is based on a christian society, even if that is generically true in a sense.
It has nothing to do with bias against the personal practice of christianity or bias against the very distinct values Christ represents, some of which I outlined above. It does have everything to do with being biased againgst bias, in this instance a Christian bias with regard to my goverment to be exact. A government which I believe should be free from any religious bias by the very virtues of its codification.
You say I am a product of my society, I agree, I am a product of a highly diverse and almost free society.
No hard feelings mate, but lets just let it go and get back to the topic of the debate and leave making judgment calls about each other out of it. Agree? [img]smile.gif[/img]