[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: It seems rather cruel of god to create us with the full knowledge that the majority of us will go to hell, does it not? In fact one could say that, that seems rather a rather perverse and evil thing to do, indeed it seems to go against the whole idea of god being merciful. Indeed it goes against the idea of him being just as well, since he punishes people for something they could not stop from doing since he made them that way, and has full knowledge that most of them will not or cannot be saved by accepting him. Also if man has an inherently sinful nature, why does god set such high standards for us? Since if we have a sinful nature, we are obviously not capable of reaching them.

Certainly "one could say that". It is an incorrect assumption based on a lack of personal knowledge, but you're welcome to say it. I know from personal experience that God is a kind and loving Creator. I have felt His touch personally and know His true nature.

AFA as God setting standards that "we obviously aren't capable of reaching", that's also a completely erroneous statement. Obviously we ARE capable of reaching them, otherwise there would be NO Christians at all (since we could never reach that status).

The problem with that is, that it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It needs no external justification, therefore it is unscientific, and yet in this age we base all of our serious knowledge around scientific techniques and/or methods. So basically what this is asking you to do, is to have double standards, one for religion where you must take it *all* on faith, and one for other articles of knowledge which can either be proved if you really wish to, or proved as part of the process of them becoming knowledge.

What's wrong with it being a self-fulfilling prophecy? If it works, it works. Just like with the plastic cup, God's true nature is easy to discover if you test it.

You may base all of your serious knowledge on scientific techniques, but I don't. AFA double standards go, different subjects require different critiria. Art and music are not "judged" by the same method as math or science. The latter do have specific criteria that all answers MUST conform too, but the former are judged subjectively. There is no specific and unbendable criteria by which art and music are judged as good or bad.

If God is God, he is omnipotent; therefore he could strike down Satan at once, yet he lets him do whatever he likes. Odd no? If we are gods children and all so special to him, why does he allow the vast majority of us to go to hell, and why did he create us with the flawed natures that make this so? also this is not giveing us free will either, since like a compass turns to magnetic north all the time, so shall we always turn to sin.

It is odd, yes, that God "allows Satan to do whatever he likes" and that He doesn't strike him down, even though He could. Why does He do that? I honostly don't know. God does have a plan for us and Satan plays a part in that plan. God will vanquish Satan once and for all, but He will do it on His timetable, not ours.

Also, God does give us free will. You could accept God if you wanted to, but you choose not to. That is your choice, not His. We are all sinful by nature, but sin does not keep us from Heaven. There is only ONE person in the entire history of Mankind that did not sin, and that was Jesus Christ. Every single Christian that has lived, from the original Apostles down to the Pope (and every single pastor, preacher, deacon, and Bible-thumper in between) sin against God every single day in one form or another. Does this keep them out of Heaven? NO. They acknowledge their sins and sincerely repent. God then forgives them of these sins and they start with a clean slate. Heaven is just as full of sinners as Hell is, the only difference is that some acknowledged their sins while others denied them.

I also can't completely agree that the "vast majority" of people will go to Hell. Many new people come to Christ every day. I wouldn't presume to know "which side is actually winning."

[ 05-18-2002, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]