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fable · 01-20-2002, 02:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Drake:
hey I was told that satanism was made just to oppose the total monarchy(sp) in Britan or France(I can't remember wich) can some one clear this up for me?

I've never heard this explanation, before, and it frankly doesn't make much sense: the modern image of Satan was well-formed and propagated before France had an absolute monarchy--and while England was just a French territory. Again, I recommend The History of Hell by Alice Turner, for an excellent discussion of the Christian Hell, with a lot on its CEO, Satan.

also I was on this wiccan site and they describe who is wiccan like this "all pagens are wiccans but not all wiccans are pagens" now from what I'm getting that's not the case. so can some one tell me where the lines are that sepperate(sp) paganism with wicca?

Well, yes, this is pretty accurate. Pagans are, pretty much by modern definition (Cambridge Dictionary), non-monotheists: the traditional definition (Webster) is "an idolator who worships false gods," which pretty well sums up the way pagans are viewed en masse by the Judeo-Christian-Islamic theological mainstream. Thus, paganism can include a lot of different religions, and not just witches.

Witches or Wiccans are a subset of paganism. We have a very real bond with nature, though it doesn't necessarily (as Garnett pointed out) mean we worship nature. Typically, we worship creation in the form of a God and Goddess, and follow a series of more-or-less established ritual forms with minor variations. We gather on the full moons for private worship within our small covens, and have a series of holidays which are in part solar-related.

Wicca *is* a modern syncretic religion, no doubt about that, and all claims of some commercializing witches to fantastical lineages to the contrary. As a group we derive from various learning traditions and groups of traditions, mostly but by no means entirely Celtic, largely formed over the last 40-60 years; and these guidelines hold true for all.

Other non-Wiccan pagan groups generally don't use the ritual forms, or may not maintain the close contact with nature, or the dualistic worship aspect.

So Wiccans or witches are a subset of paganism. Hope that helps. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

01-20-2002, 02:35 PM	#86
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	quote: Originally posted by Drake: hey I was told that satanism was made just to oppose the total monarchy(sp) in Britan or France(I can't remember wich) can some one clear this up for me? I've never heard this explanation, before, and it frankly doesn't make much sense: the modern image of Satan was well-formed and propagated before France had an absolute monarchy--and while England was just a French territory. Again, I recommend The History of Hell by Alice Turner, for an excellent discussion of the Christian Hell, with a lot on its CEO, Satan. also I was on this wiccan site and they describe who is wiccan like this "all pagens are wiccans but not all wiccans are pagens" now from what I'm getting that's not the case. so can some one tell me where the lines are that sepperate(sp) paganism with wicca? Well, yes, this is pretty accurate. Pagans are, pretty much by modern definition (Cambridge Dictionary), non-monotheists: the traditional definition (Webster) is "an idolator who worships false gods," which pretty well sums up the way pagans are viewed en masse by the Judeo-Christian-Islamic theological mainstream. Thus, paganism can include a lot of different religions, and not just witches. Witches or Wiccans are a subset of paganism. We have a very real bond with nature, though it doesn't necessarily (as Garnett pointed out) mean we worship nature. Typically, we worship creation in the form of a God and Goddess, and follow a series of more-or-less established ritual forms with minor variations. We gather on the full moons for private worship within our small covens, and have a series of holidays which are in part solar-related. Wicca is a modern syncretic religion, no doubt about that, and all claims of some commercializing witches to fantastical lineages to the contrary. As a group we derive from various learning traditions and groups of traditions, mostly but by no means entirely Celtic, largely formed over the last 40-60 years; and these guidelines hold true for all. Other non-Wiccan pagan groups generally don't use the ritual forms, or may not maintain the close contact with nature, or the dualistic worship aspect. So Wiccans or witches are a subset of paganism. Hope that helps. [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: fable ]