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Thoran · 01-18-2002, 04:51 PM

I wish it were inevitable, but I think there are many paths... perhaps the one that offers the most hope for humanity is a kind of social system where human beings feel that they belong to and gain validation from the group while still maintaining their individuality. Pure socialism in my opinion is as bad as pure capitalism... successful socialism is only gained through loss of individuality (ultimate order I guess... the hive mind)... but pure capitalism results in chaos.

I guess my belief regarding greed is that it has always existed, it's a part of animal nature to WANT. Greed is the idea of WANT applied to the ultimate satisfier of physical desires... money. Non humans species on this planet exhibit greed also, as it applies to wanting something you don't have.

SO... you're suggesting that humans once existed in a socialist society, and while I agree there have been civilizations in the past that have displayed socialist traits (lots of them), the origonal basis of human behavior is self-interest and thus inconsistant with pure socialism. I guess I would suggest that possibly you're putting the cart before the horse... it's not social structure that defines human nature... it's human nature that defies the required parameters of a social structure (if it's to succede it must accomidate human nature).

I think many people today (not saying you do of course) believe that "the old days" were an idyllic time where everyone lived together in harmony with nature. The reading I've done isn't consistant with that... but rather points to a world that gets progressively more harsh and wild as you travel farther back. The rule of the strong and "survival of the fittest" was much more in effect 100 years ago than today... and stronger yet 1000 years before that, and so on. Society IS moving away from rule by force, capitalist though it is, it's just that we as a species might run out of time before we can get to equilebrium with nature.

(to jump back a bit) ... many take the idea that "the origonal basis of human behavior is self-interest" to be a negative statement... I disagree... it's gotten us to where we are today. HOWEVER, for us to move forward and not destroy ourselves we need to evolve. There's the challenge.

And when I write I'm basically thinking out loud... so if I write something as statement, take it for theory... I don't pretend to have all the answers [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Thoran ]

01-18-2002, 04:51 PM	#22
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 57 Posts: 2,109	I wish it were inevitable, but I think there are many paths... perhaps the one that offers the most hope for humanity is a kind of social system where human beings feel that they belong to and gain validation from the group while still maintaining their individuality. Pure socialism in my opinion is as bad as pure capitalism... successful socialism is only gained through loss of individuality (ultimate order I guess... the hive mind)... but pure capitalism results in chaos. I guess my belief regarding greed is that it has always existed, it's a part of animal nature to WANT. Greed is the idea of WANT applied to the ultimate satisfier of physical desires... money. Non humans species on this planet exhibit greed also, as it applies to wanting something you don't have. SO... you're suggesting that humans once existed in a socialist society, and while I agree there have been civilizations in the past that have displayed socialist traits (lots of them), the origonal basis of human behavior is self-interest and thus inconsistant with pure socialism. I guess I would suggest that possibly you're putting the cart before the horse... it's not social structure that defines human nature... it's human nature that defies the required parameters of a social structure (if it's to succede it must accomidate human nature). I think many people today (not saying you do of course) believe that "the old days" were an idyllic time where everyone lived together in harmony with nature. The reading I've done isn't consistant with that... but rather points to a world that gets progressively more harsh and wild as you travel farther back. The rule of the strong and "survival of the fittest" was much more in effect 100 years ago than today... and stronger yet 1000 years before that, and so on. Society IS moving away from rule by force, capitalist though it is, it's just that we as a species might run out of time before we can get to equilebrium with nature. (to jump back a bit) ... many take the idea that "the origonal basis of human behavior is self-interest" to be a negative statement... I disagree... it's gotten us to where we are today. HOWEVER, for us to move forward and not destroy ourselves we need to evolve. There's the challenge. And when I write I'm basically thinking out loud... so if I write something as statement, take it for theory... I don't pretend to have all the answers [img]smile.gif[/img] . [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Thoran ]