sigh, must I say those all again?
ohhhhh, i see, so what were they doing out there? a 24 family members having a holiday trip out there? so freaking close to South China Sea, taking pictures? I see, hmm, not spy, not spy, not really.
Convention: Similarly, the following are not considered spies: soldiers or
civilians, carrying out their mission openly, charged with the delivery
of despatches destined either for their own army or for that of the
enemy.
hmmm, lets see, carry out mission OPENLY? ohhh well, pretty open are you? have you informed Chinese government that you will fly your planes around its border every so often? well, no
the truth was, the dudes were on a mission of obtain information, and they did it secretly. unfortunate for them, they were discovered. but that doesn't mean you weren't spying. a discovered spy is still a spy, that doesnt make him a "soldier who" all of a sudden "penatrated hostile zone"
let me make this clear, it was AMERICAN plane made the turn, not chinese pilot.
look, man, the left wing, left motor, and plane head, in this order, the plane crashes. think about it, from this kinda direction, it left only two possible answers. one is chinese pilot deliberately drove into your plane from left wing. doing so would result the pilot a certain death, because he is in front and would should crash himself when his plane hits Spyplane from BELOW.
the second option is american plane made a sudden, big turn towards chinese plane, the chinese pilot barely managed to avoid, but not miss the manuver, because his own wing crashed into the spyplane.
about "escout from a safe distance" what the hell? what is a safe distance? before anything happens, any distance is safe. and do you mean, chinese should endure the constant taunts from american military, and still remain a "respectful" and "safe" distance??? how dare you spit down other people's right?? and by what right do you have to justify the constant spying missions on near china sea???
regardless you were not in china sea (it is not determined yet) your motivation was harmful to chinese people and chinese rights.
the convention: Preamble:
Recognizing the desirability of establishing through this Convention, with due regard for the sovereignty of all States, a legal order for the seas and oceans which will facilitate international communication, and will promote the peaceful uses of the seas and oceans, the equitable and efficient utilization of their resources, the conservation of their living resources, and the study, protection and preservation of the marine environment
look at the word: "PEACEFUL USE" "PEACEFUL USE" "PEACEFUL USE" "PEACEFUL USE"
US plane was on military mission, which was a secret remained unknown. let not discuss if THIS mission was hostile, but US had increasingly sending planes spying China, if not spy, THEN WHAT WERE THEY DOING???
if spy, then it is NOT PEACEFUL AT ALL! US broke the law, and face it!
final remark, this is an american scholar wrote to chinese people:
dont lie to yourself, they were spying! what else were they doing? it is like saying "a thug break into your house, beat your family, and accuse you for not properly lock the door"
does that make sense? GIVE ME A BREAK!
one last remark
China is right
The U.S. government has flipped its lid on this China spy plane mess. So have many commentators who are refusing to come to terms with some very obvious facts. Once you blow away the fog, you can see that if anyone should be protesting right now, it is American citizens against their own government.
No. 1: The collision between the U.S. spy plane and the Chinese jet occurred along China's border. Think about that and you can understand why China is so unhappy.
Now, the U.S. claims it was in "international airspace," but backs up this claim with a rule arrived at unilaterally by the U.S. government and accepted by no one else. The U.S. makes up rules to justify its behavior, rules that the U.S. does not accept if applied against U.S. territory.
The space where the collision occurred is normally used to facilitate commerce, not hostile military activities. But in U.S. foreign policy, there is a presumption that the whole world is a playground for the U.S. government to do what it wants.
No. 2: The U.S. plane was a spy plane. Say it three times: It was a spy plane. It was not a commercial airliner. Hence it is preposterous for the U.S. to say that a spy plane landing in China territory is somehow sovereign property. The international law on this subject applies to civil aviation.
The U.S. spy plane was seeking to intercept communications and rip off information for U.S. military advantage, probably at the behest of China's unfriendly neighbors. This makes it an aggressor against China, just as the U.S. considers any attempt to spy on us to be aggression and evidence of hostility.
No. 3: The U.S. spy plane landed at a Chinese military airport. The U.S. crew never asked permission to do so. Imagine what the U.S. would do if a Chinese spy plane were zipping around outside Virginia, became entangled with U.S. jets, and then landed at a U.S. base. The U.S. would not say, "Sorry, guys, about interrupting your spy mission. Thanks for visiting our military base and come back soon."
No. 4: The Chinese pilot is dead. The U.S. crew is not. Also still dead are the three Chinese journalists who died when the U.S. bombed the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia in 1999. No U.S. soldiers died in that incident either. The carnage is beginning to mount, and, no surprise, that at some point the Chinese are going to decide they won't take it anymore. How long can one country be subjected to murderous attacks from the U.S. before it begins to complain? But if they do complain, this is decried in the U.S. as "nationalism."
No. 5: There is no mystery about how the U.S. treats such cases. In 1976, a Soviet MIG carrying a defector landed in Japan. The Soviets demanded the plane back. The U.S. complied after taking the entire thing apart. It was sent back to Moscow in packing crates.
On another occasion in the 1970s, the U.S. secretly tried to raise a Soviet submarine from the ocean. We use any means possible to obtain military equipment from potentially hostile nations. So turnabout is fair play.
No. 6: The U.S. spy plane was not an innocent victim. No one can say for sure how the collision occurred, but it seems obvious that the U.S. version of events -- a spy plane minding its own business gets bumped by a Chinese jet -- isn't true. This was a case of the kind of cat-and-mouse that cars play on highways all the time.
If it turns out that the U.S. is wholly to blame, it wouldn't be the first time. A couple of years ago, American fighter pilots cut ski cables in Italy, killing 20 civilians with their recklessness. And just recently, show-offs and goof-offs cruising the world in a submarine sank a Japanese school boat, killing nine, four of whom were 17-year-old kids.
No. 7: The U.S. has fulminated for years about supposed spying by China against the U.S. Remember the Cox Report? For all of its bluster, it never went so far as to accuse China of flying spy planes around our borders. But it turns out that the U.S. regards such activity as routine and justifiable, if directed against other countries.
The message is obvious: The U.S. can do whatever it wants with its military, but believes itself exempt from the very laws it wants to apply to others. This attitude engenders hatred around the world.
Though no one in the U.S. cares to remember, the Chinese have not forgotten the U.S. role in the so-called Opium Wars. In this 19th-century drug war, military force was used to addict the Chinese to drugs so as to create customers for opium. Nor have they forgotten the Boxer Rebellion, when U.S. troops -- in pursuit of continuing economic control -- burned and looted the ancient imperial compound. Nor, to take more recent examples, have they forgotten the U.S. threatening them twice in the 1950s with nuclear annihilation for responding to huge Taiwanese troop movements to the islands of Quemoy and Matsu near the mainland.
To say there are double standards at work here is a wild understatement. Despite all the mistreatment, Beijing doesn't want war. It wants the U.S. to behave like a responsible trading partner, not the world hegemon it has become. But there is only so much humiliation and bloodshed that a nation can be subjected to before its citizens demand reprisal.
Washington probably doesn't want war either. What it wants is a license to spy on and otherwise invade the world, killing and maiming whenever the time seems right, and never having to be held responsible. Washington wants what every bully wants -- the freedom to beat people up and never pay the price.
American citizens should join their friends across the ocean and protest U.S. imperial adventures. Our heritage is one of peace. Our founders tried to create a system that would prevent the establishment of a world military empire. It is our moral duty to criticize such an establishment when it threatens to upset peaceful commercial ties, which in the Chinese case are extensive and magnificent.
At minimum, we must demand that U.S. commentators cut out the absurd Cold War language of belligerency, lies, and reprisal. China has never done anything to us. We must demand that our own government stop the spying, bombing and killing. No American citizen benefits from the U.S. Empire. But we each have much to gain from having it dismantled.
There is only one evil empire alive in the world today, and it is not China.
(Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr.)
[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 04-09-2001).]