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There is no one on this forum that I hate or even want to flame and if that is how I came off at 1:30 this morning. I apologize. That is specifically directed at you 250. I am sorry if I offended you in anyway.
This topic was originally about the China incident and it generated into what I perceived as US bashing. I also admit that in the past my government has made some horrible mistakes.
One that I can think of, in my life time, is the support of the Shah of Iran and I sure others of
you, out there can think of other examples as well. But what does this have to do with China. We do think of China as a competitor economically, much as we think of the EU. The difference is the EU nations are also our allies and China is not. We can embrace old enemies as allies. We have with Germany and Japan. But I, personally don't ever see China being our ally as it exists today. I would be very ashamed of our government if we ever embraced a government that gave us Tianiman Square or supported a regime like Po Pot in Cambodia.
Imagine if you will, that we all live under a government like the People's Republic of China.
Where you have to have permission to have Internet access. Where that access is monitored 24
hours a day. Where school children don't go to school to get an education, but rather make fireworks, so some military officer can make a lot of money. Where ethnic groups are suppressed and in some cases ethnically cleanized (Tibet). Where there is no freedom of religion. Where religion isn't even allowed. Where peaceful movement like Fo lun Gong (sp)
are brutally suppressed. Where people cannot congregate at a gathering unless it is state sponsored. Where people like Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr. can't express their opinions with out going to jail for twenty years. Where you don't get to choose your profession, but the state chooses it for you. Where you cannot travel abroad without government permission, and when you do, your family is held hostage until your return. Where books are banned or heavily censored and ideas aren't freely exchanged. Where AD&D or Baldurs Gate cannot be played. Would we all like to live like that? What about it? Sound like a good place to live? Not to me. I couldn't live that way.
I know that there are many other countries that are this way, even some that are so called democratic nations! I know that my own country has had, and in some cases continues to have problems with some of these things. All nations had them and continue to have them. No one nation is exempt! However I would give anything to make sure my children continue to have what I do. Even my life if necessary. Sometimes that means my nation has to do things that I
or others don't like. Like gathering intelligence on another nation, or spying as some of you wish to call it. We do this, so that maybe someday, if it should ever come to it (and God forbid
that it ever does) we have the upper hand in a war. So that we can win. After all is that not the objective of a war; to win. In some cases, that might be to save your nation. Such as what happened during WWII.
If you all recall your history, we were attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor. With proper intelligence that might never have happened. Maybe what we needed was a "spy plane" flying up and down the Japanese coast that would have told us they more moving out a large fleet of ships to attack not only us but the Philippines, Malaysia and New Guinea . We could have
possibly headed off those attacks with a diplomatic effort. Possibly saved millions of lives that were lost in the war. Of course if that had happened, we all might be greeting each other with "Heil Hitler" or bowing to the Emperor. I don't think that would be except able. That was a lesson that my country will never forget (I hope).
Does anyone here think that it could happen again? Except this time it could be Taiwan with its population in the millions. These people have lived in a democracy (maybe not a perfect one, but is there really such a thing) enjoying freedoms that most of us here enjoy, for over 50 years. Would it be fair to them for us, as a world, to turn our backs on them if they where about to be attacked. To become some warlord's slaves, making products for the rest of us around the world to use. Maybe, just maybe, gathering intelligence on what I call a totalitarian government isn't such a bad thing after all. I personally feel that it is a job that must be done.
The arguments about who was at fault in the accident will never be settled. Were any of us there? The only ones I know for sure are the 24 US personal on the plane and the two Chinese
F-8 pilots. It's one sides word against the other. I can think of another reason for the collision between the EP-3 and the F-8. What about a sudden down draft or a strong wind. All of us that have flown on a plane have experienced turbulence, where the craft goes up and down, and side to side, sometimes hundreds of feet. That could have happened, just as a number of things could have happened. None of us will never know, because we weren't there. We can set and argue this back and forth and never settle anything.
As far as an apology. I don't think it will ever happen. I personally don't think it should happen.
There was an incident and a man died and that is very tragic and I hope all will accept our condolences. But I think that the only reason the Chinese want an apology is to grandstand. They were the ones that blew this out of proportion. Not the US. We simply asked for our plane and our crew back. We don't really expect the plane back, but we had to ask.
For those of you that took the time to read all of this. Thank you very much! This is what I believe and I will not change my opinion, unless someone can prove me wrong. If I changed your opinion, fine. If I didn't, then that is fine too. I don't not ever want to dictate to someone else how they should feel and neither do I want to be dictated too. I never have claimed to be a great debater and I wish I were more articulate, but I am just an average person of average intelligence. I wouldn't want to be anything else.
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Sir Taliesin
Ten Rings there are, and nine gold torcs on the battlechiefs of old...
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