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leptomeninges · 09-26-2006, 03:27 PM

First of all, I agree with Dave above.

Secondly, a few tips on building your characters (and I'll try to avoid spoilers). This isn't to try to talk your out of (or into) anything as much as to give you a better idea of mechanics you may or may not already understand.

Dwarven Fighter (Decided against the Lord for similar reasons mentioned...)
The reason people recommend Lizards is because they are *so* quick to unlock elite skills by maxing VIT, STR, and DEX. You're probably up to speed on these already, but just in case you're not you can find them here:
http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8...ls-expert.html
It isn't just that your lizard gets it first and your dwarf gets it later. It's the levels when your lizard has it that these skills are autoleveling as you fight. This allows them to reach much higher numbers than your dwarf might without training.
I almost always dual wield my fighters. Shields never seemed worth it to me. If you do dual wield, be aware that maces are far and away the easiest type to find off-hand weapons for although you may want to take something different for your main hand. In terms of game availability for main hand sword>mace>>>axe.
Also just FYI you have to manually select the berzerk attack from the menu unlike the other class specific attacks (backstabbing, etc.) I recall that it took me a while to realize that the first time through.

Dracon Samurai (I'm pleased that this choice has some background credentials! Although I considered a Lizardman for awhile also.)
People usually dual-wield swords. Your sword skill will rise pretty quickly on its own if he's dual wielding and in the thick of things. You shouldn't have to pump many points into it. The decision for most people is pumping skill points into a ranged weapon or magic, and most people take magic (you did pick a hybrid after all). At level up you are almost always better served by putting your points into the Wizardry skill rather than any of the sub-classes (ie: fire, earth, etc.)

Felpurr Ninja (Named after my cat, Ebon. Have read that dual-wielding will add to critical strike potential, so am curious.) Again, if you're dual throwing most of the time, these skills are going to rise pretty quickly on their own. The next question is pumping magic, stealth, crits, or a melee weapon. Remember to max her senses first to get the eagle eye skill. By the way, I think chances are *very* high that your Ninja will run out of ammo early on if she's mostly throwing. If she does be sure to either cast spells or move her into melee range so she can use her martial arts or whatever weapon you have equipped. Don't let her sit idle on the back row. Every character should always be doing something every round. Not only does this make good common sense, but every time you do something you have a chance to gain a skill-up in it. She may only miss with her martial arts, but at least she may level it up.

Rawulf Priest (Gone for bless/heal to start)
I have never played a priest, but I expect that your magic schools will rise *very* quickly on their own given that he'll be healing a lot. You'll probably want an extended reach melee weapon (some flails and most staves) or a ranged weapon for him. The most important elite skill for any caster is the one associated with intelligence (powercasting), not piety (iron will) as you might think for a priest.

*Mook Bard (Unsure on the precise build)
There is only one skill you have to pump for bards and that is music. Again, if you're playing often it also will rise pretty quickly on its own. The next quesiton is a melee or a ranged weapon. Endurance based casters can deplete their stamina pretty quickly. You'll want to give him any stamina potions you find and depending on your playstyle you may want to buy some also if you don't want your casters to be constantly restoring him.
Just FYI a lot of people compare Bards to Gadgeteers and there are a lot of debates over which is stronger. Bards are definitely easier the first time through as their instruments are found preassembled whereas you actually have to put the Gadgeteers things together. In my opinion Bards peak early while Gadgeteers peak late, but both are quite strong. One big difference is the Gadgeteers omnigun. Some people hate it because it doesn't do much damage. The thing to remember is that when fully upgraded it can cause every negative condition in the game. Don't underestimate it.

*Elven Mage
See priest above. The big upside of an alchemist (imho) is that they can mix potions which both raises your alchemy skill and can be sold for good cash. You should be able to find a list of the recipes on the forum somewhere.

A few other random thoughts and tips. These things made the biggest difference in my ability to play at higher difficulties. Some may disagree. I dont mind

1. Understanding the formation window. It looks like a sonar or something in the lower left. If your weak casters are getting hurt, the answer frequently lies here.
2. Use the terrain. Sometimes this means backing into a corner so you don't get surrounded. Sometimes it means running.
3. Learning to exploit Arnika. It's the first town. I won't give any specifics except to say that there should be a big difference in a pre and post Arnika party.
4. Learning to keep up every possible protective spell at all times. There are two types. Some which only last through combat and others that stay up all the time. Keep the long-lasting ones up all the time. (This incidentally is one of the key reasons for a bishop -- to keep all these up. Your party will miss the psionic based buffs. Not a game-breaking flaw by any means, but something to avoid at high difficulty. Now that I think of it the only one you may miss without psionics is xray vision which isn't so important. I'd have to double check though).
5. Learning to train skills (which some people do think is cheap) and which skills to improve at level-up. This just takes some time.
6. Understanding the importance of "conditions." While your casters can do very respectable damage, keeping negative conditions on the enemy and positive ones on your party usually gives more utility for their mana.

Good luck with your game! It's fun to think about Wiz 8. Dang I enjoyed this game.

[ 09-27-2006, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: leptomeninges ]

09-26-2006, 03:27 PM	#11
leptomeninges Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: November 6, 2003 Location: New York Age: 58 Posts: 34	First of all, I agree with Dave above. Secondly, a few tips on building your characters (and I'll try to avoid spoilers). This isn't to try to talk your out of (or into) anything as much as to give you a better idea of mechanics you may or may not already understand. Dwarven Fighter (Decided against the Lord for similar reasons mentioned...) The reason people recommend Lizards is because they are so quick to unlock elite skills by maxing VIT, STR, and DEX. You're probably up to speed on these already, but just in case you're not you can find them here: http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8...ls-expert.html It isn't just that your lizard gets it first and your dwarf gets it later. It's the levels when your lizard has it that these skills are autoleveling as you fight. This allows them to reach much higher numbers than your dwarf might without training. I almost always dual wield my fighters. Shields never seemed worth it to me. If you do dual wield, be aware that maces are far and away the easiest type to find off-hand weapons for although you may want to take something different for your main hand. In terms of game availability for main hand sword>mace>>>axe. Also just FYI you have to manually select the berzerk attack from the menu unlike the other class specific attacks (backstabbing, etc.) I recall that it took me a while to realize that the first time through. Dracon Samurai (I'm pleased that this choice has some background credentials! Although I considered a Lizardman for awhile also.) People usually dual-wield swords. Your sword skill will rise pretty quickly on its own if he's dual wielding and in the thick of things. You shouldn't have to pump many points into it. The decision for most people is pumping skill points into a ranged weapon or magic, and most people take magic (you did pick a hybrid after all). At level up you are almost always better served by putting your points into the Wizardry skill rather than any of the sub-classes (ie: fire, earth, etc.) Felpurr Ninja (Named after my cat, Ebon. Have read that dual-wielding will add to critical strike potential, so am curious.) Again, if you're dual throwing most of the time, these skills are going to rise pretty quickly on their own. The next question is pumping magic, stealth, crits, or a melee weapon. Remember to max her senses first to get the eagle eye skill. By the way, I think chances are very high that your Ninja will run out of ammo early on if she's mostly throwing. If she does be sure to either cast spells or move her into melee range so she can use her martial arts or whatever weapon you have equipped. Don't let her sit idle on the back row. Every character should always be doing something every round. Not only does this make good common sense, but every time you do something you have a chance to gain a skill-up in it. She may only miss with her martial arts, but at least she may level it up. Rawulf Priest (Gone for bless/heal to start) I have never played a priest, but I expect that your magic schools will rise very quickly on their own given that he'll be healing a lot. You'll probably want an extended reach melee weapon (some flails and most staves) or a ranged weapon for him. The most important elite skill for any caster is the one associated with intelligence (powercasting), not piety (iron will) as you might think for a priest. Mook Bard (Unsure on the precise build) There is only one skill you have to pump for bards and that is music. Again, if you're playing often it also will rise pretty quickly on its own. The next quesiton is a melee or a ranged weapon. Endurance based casters can deplete their stamina pretty quickly. You'll want to give him any stamina potions you find and depending on your playstyle you may want to buy some also if you don't want your casters to be constantly restoring him. Just FYI a lot of people compare Bards to Gadgeteers and there are a lot of debates over which is stronger. Bards are definitely easier the first time through as their instruments are found preassembled whereas you actually have to put the Gadgeteers things together. In my opinion Bards peak early while Gadgeteers peak late, but both are quite strong. One big difference is the Gadgeteers omnigun. Some people hate it because it doesn't do much damage. The thing to remember is that when fully upgraded it can cause every negative condition in the game. Don't underestimate it. Elven Mage See priest above. The big upside of an alchemist (imho) is that they can mix potions which both raises your alchemy skill and can be sold for good cash. You should be able to find a list of the recipes on the forum somewhere. A few other random thoughts and tips. These things made the biggest difference in my ability to play at higher difficulties. Some may disagree. I dont mind 1. Understanding the formation window. It looks like a sonar or something in the lower left. If your weak casters are getting hurt, the answer frequently lies here. 2. Use the terrain. Sometimes this means backing into a corner so you don't get surrounded. Sometimes it means running. 3. Learning to exploit Arnika. It's the first town. I won't give any specifics except to say that there should be a big difference in a pre and post Arnika party. 4. Learning to keep up every possible protective spell at all times. There are two types. Some which only last through combat and others that stay up all the time. Keep the long-lasting ones up all the time. (This incidentally is one of the key reasons for a bishop -- to keep all these up. Your party will miss the psionic based buffs. Not a game-breaking flaw by any means, but something to avoid at high difficulty. Now that I think of it the only one you may miss without psionics is xray vision which isn't so important. I'd have to double check though). 5. Learning to train skills (which some people do think is cheap) and which skills to improve at level-up. This just takes some time. 6. Understanding the importance of "conditions." While your casters can do very respectable damage, keeping negative conditions on the enemy and positive ones on your party usually gives more utility for their mana. Good luck with your game! It's fun to think about Wiz 8. Dang I enjoyed this game. [ 09-27-2006, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: leptomeninges ]