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seclists · 08-01-2005, 06:36 AM

By chance, I installed the mod last weekend and tried it. I made it to Arnika (from the Monastery), and here are my impressions of the mod.

First (and most importantly) of all, I would like to emphasize that I *am* impressed by the amount of work that has been put into this mod, and I am most definitely having a blast playing the modded game. It is, indeed, almost like playing the game again, for the first time. So now I have two distinctly different Wizardry 8 games for the price of one, not bad at all (given that I originally discovered the game in the discount bin). And believe me when I say that I really can appreciate the effort that must have been invested in the creation of this mod - I am speaking as someone who has authored a currently available CRPG (no, don't ask me to name it, I won't, because I want to preserve my anonymity), and I *know* how many hours/days/weeks a project of this scope will take. It is something you can do only if you truly love your work. And now you give it away for free - muchos gracias, I am in your debt.

I wanted to say that first, as I am now going into some specific comments. (If I had simply started with the following comments, you might have thought that I am dissatisfied with the mod, - which I am certainly not; the mod is great!)

So here goes... look out for *SPOILERS* below

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1) Game balance
I know, this is a touchy issue. Even a tiny change can tip the balance tremendously.
As suggested, I downloaded an editor and gave my characters enough experience to start with a level 5 party. That turned out to be overkill. The whole monastery & everything until Arnika was a walk in the park. I did not even need to hire any NPCs. About the only problem I had was that my characters were getting poisoned far too often (there were so many poisonous monsters) and none of my casters could learn Cure Poison yet - I ended up buying all potions of Cure Poison that Burz had available, and even that was just barely enough.
My party?
1 Lizard Man Warrior
2 Mook Ranger
3 Mook Gadgeteer
4 Mook Bard
5 Half-Elven Bishop (Wizardry/Divinity specialist)
6 Half-Elven Bishop (Psionics/Alchemy specialist)
That's pretty much standard party composition for me today, giving me enough melee muscle power & missile/magic firepower as well as access to all gadgets, instruments and spells in the standard game. The only deviation from my standard party is #2 who would be faerie ninja in the standard party; in the mod, I did not know what items would be available (if the CoC would be available at all), and, to be frank, without the CoC, a faerie ninja would be waste of a good PC slot. The Ranger was a better choice overall: the missile criticals are at least as good as the ninja's thrown criticals (since the missile weapons/ammo tend to be better than thrown weapons; esp. if you have a gadgeteer to produce an early Triple-Shot Crossbow), the Ranger can wear better armour and wield better weapons (the CoC being the obvious exception - and in that case, you will be further limited to just one race, and an extremely wimpy & limited one at that), the Ranger can learn Alchemy just like the Ninja, the Ranger advances levels faster, and, on top of it all, the Ranger has the automatic searching ability - superb for playing the game (or a new mod!) the first time without having to cast Detect Secrets all the time. So, if I am not specifically going for the CoC (and this time I was not), I will pick a Ranger instead of a Ninja (as you can see, I already have a Bard & a Gadgeteer for pickpocketing & disarming, respectively).
Oh, I have finished the regular game. Three times, Normal & Expert. So I guess I am a somewhat experienced player and know what I am doing. In any case, starting with level 5 characters, my party simply overpowered everything they encountered until they hit Arnika (more on Arnika later on, see issue 2). No, I do not think it was simply because I was experienced and knew how things worked. The Monastery was filled to the brim with *great* items - the kind of items you would not find until much later in the regular game. Several bard items & gadgets, some of them very powerful - e.g., an instrument that activates for Crush! Sometimes the effects were more insidious, like the odd % chance of inflicting an ailment in a weapon or ammo. Don't get me wrong, I think these weapons are great variations of the boring stock weapons, but keep in mind that something not-so-likely becomes more and more likely the more you use it. For example, let's say that a weapon has a 15% chance of paralyzing your opponent. After 5 hits, it is 55% likely that the weapon has at least once paralyzed a foe. After 10 hits, the chance is 80%, and after 20 hits, 96% (assuming that the RNG is functioning "properly"). Remember: all this is *in addition* to the regular damage. Likewise, it *is* exciting to discover new instruments & gadgets (especially since my lvl5-kickstarted characters can use them almost immediately), but having a Lute of Crushing so early in the game is simply ludicrous. Even though the monsters are more powerful than their stock counterparts, they don't stand a chance against a well-balanced party controlled by an experienced player.
I would recommend that experienced Wizardry 8 veterans (those of you who have completed the game) start with level 3 characters (rather than level 5 characters) for a challenge that is comparable to the regular game. Or start with level 1 characters if you wish a *slightly* greater challenge (but if you have already played "solo" games, you will make it - it isn't worse).

2) The battles, esp. Arnika
Having beaten the Sorceress Queen mob & the Rapax Army three times (twice on Expert, mind you), I do not get anxious when the enemies greatly outnumber my party. It is just a question of getting your priorities right, i.e., knowing what you have to do first (usually cast Element Shield, Soul Shield & stuff) and who you need to take out first (typically the summoners). Ok, this worked pretty well here (except that I did not have Soul Shield or Element Shield yet

, although I admit I was getting slightly worried by the level 16 and level 18 enemies (my party was level 7-8ish) that kept summoning demons and elementals and dodged my every attack. However, this is not the issue, as I enjoy the challenge...
The duration of the battle was the issue. This battle alone took 1.5 hours REAL TIME (in turn-based mode, I always use that). A single battle! Being a married man, I seldom have that much time to play, PER DAY.
The culprit? The stupid "friendly" creatures. They were lumbering around slowly, getting in my way, blocking my shots, etc. In other words, they were making the battle last at least twice as long as it otherwise would have! A single turn in this battle took as much real time as normal medium/big battle without the meddlesome friendly creatures. I actually found myself cheering every time when Baldhair or whatever friendly creature bought the farm ("Great, things will slightly speed up again."). I actually even considered declaring war on the friendly characters and ridding the world of them myself; they were just making the game very near unplayable.
What stayed my hand was an earlier experience in the Monastery. I had inadvertently angered the group of adventurers (still not sure how, possibly by the new "hurt-everyone-make-no-distinction-between-friend-and-foe" spells), and found myself fighting them (in addition to the actual enemies). Sure, I beat them along with two groups of enemies, but that totally wrecked my Higardi ratings. Not good, as I want to be able to do some shopping in Arnika...
As for the battle in Arnika (2 groups of frogs, 1 group of "mercenaries"), I *think* I could have won the combat without the help of the friendly creatures, but maybe not without casualties. On the other hand, Resurrection Powder is available, and I think that losing a PC or two would have been preferable to the hour&half slugfest.

More to follow later on (when I have time to play again).

[ 08-01-2005, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: seclists ]

08-01-2005, 06:36 AM	#7
seclists Dungeon Master Join Date: December 18, 2003 Location: NA Age: 55 Posts: 57	By chance, I installed the mod last weekend and tried it. I made it to Arnika (from the Monastery), and here are my impressions of the mod. First (and most importantly) of all, I would like to emphasize that I am impressed by the amount of work that has been put into this mod, and I am most definitely having a blast playing the modded game. It is, indeed, almost like playing the game again, for the first time. So now I have two distinctly different Wizardry 8 games for the price of one, not bad at all (given that I originally discovered the game in the discount bin). And believe me when I say that I really can appreciate the effort that must have been invested in the creation of this mod - I am speaking as someone who has authored a currently available CRPG (no, don't ask me to name it, I won't, because I want to preserve my anonymity), and I know how many hours/days/weeks a project of this scope will take. It is something you can do only if you truly love your work. And now you give it away for free - muchos gracias, I am in your debt. I wanted to say that first, as I am now going into some specific comments. (If I had simply started with the following comments, you might have thought that I am dissatisfied with the mod, - which I am certainly not; the mod is great!) So here goes... look out for SPOILERS below S P O I L E R S P A C E . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1) Game balance I know, this is a touchy issue. Even a tiny change can tip the balance tremendously. As suggested, I downloaded an editor and gave my characters enough experience to start with a level 5 party. That turned out to be overkill. The whole monastery & everything until Arnika was a walk in the park. I did not even need to hire any NPCs. About the only problem I had was that my characters were getting poisoned far too often (there were so many poisonous monsters) and none of my casters could learn Cure Poison yet - I ended up buying all potions of Cure Poison that Burz had available, and even that was just barely enough. My party? 1 Lizard Man Warrior 2 Mook Ranger 3 Mook Gadgeteer 4 Mook Bard 5 Half-Elven Bishop (Wizardry/Divinity specialist) 6 Half-Elven Bishop (Psionics/Alchemy specialist) That's pretty much standard party composition for me today, giving me enough melee muscle power & missile/magic firepower as well as access to all gadgets, instruments and spells in the standard game. The only deviation from my standard party is #2 who would be faerie ninja in the standard party; in the mod, I did not know what items would be available (if the CoC would be available at all), and, to be frank, without the CoC, a faerie ninja would be waste of a good PC slot. The Ranger was a better choice overall: the missile criticals are at least as good as the ninja's thrown criticals (since the missile weapons/ammo tend to be better than thrown weapons; esp. if you have a gadgeteer to produce an early Triple-Shot Crossbow), the Ranger can wear better armour and wield better weapons (the CoC being the obvious exception - and in that case, you will be further limited to just one race, and an extremely wimpy & limited one at that), the Ranger can learn Alchemy just like the Ninja, the Ranger advances levels faster, and, on top of it all, the Ranger has the automatic searching ability - superb for playing the game (or a new mod!) the first time without having to cast Detect Secrets all the time. So, if I am not specifically going for the CoC (and this time I was not), I will pick a Ranger instead of a Ninja (as you can see, I already have a Bard & a Gadgeteer for pickpocketing & disarming, respectively). Oh, I have finished the regular game. Three times, Normal & Expert. So I guess I am a somewhat experienced player and know what I am doing. In any case, starting with level 5 characters, my party simply overpowered everything they encountered until they hit Arnika (more on Arnika later on, see issue 2). No, I do not think it was simply because I was experienced and knew how things worked. The Monastery was filled to the brim with great items - the kind of items you would not find until much later in the regular game. Several bard items & gadgets, some of them very powerful - e.g., an instrument that activates for Crush! Sometimes the effects were more insidious, like the odd % chance of inflicting an ailment in a weapon or ammo. Don't get me wrong, I think these weapons are great variations of the boring stock weapons, but keep in mind that something not-so-likely becomes more and more likely the more you use it. For example, let's say that a weapon has a 15% chance of paralyzing your opponent. After 5 hits, it is 55% likely that the weapon has at least once paralyzed a foe. After 10 hits, the chance is 80%, and after 20 hits, 96% (assuming that the RNG is functioning "properly"). Remember: all this is in addition to the regular damage. Likewise, it is exciting to discover new instruments & gadgets (especially since my lvl5-kickstarted characters can use them almost immediately), but having a Lute of Crushing so early in the game is simply ludicrous. Even though the monsters are more powerful than their stock counterparts, they don't stand a chance against a well-balanced party controlled by an experienced player. I would recommend that experienced Wizardry 8 veterans (those of you who have completed the game) start with level 3 characters (rather than level 5 characters) for a challenge that is comparable to the regular game. Or start with level 1 characters if you wish a slightly greater challenge (but if you have already played "solo" games, you will make it - it isn't worse). 2) The battles, esp. Arnika Having beaten the Sorceress Queen mob & the Rapax Army three times (twice on Expert, mind you), I do not get anxious when the enemies greatly outnumber my party. It is just a question of getting your priorities right, i.e., knowing what you have to do first (usually cast Element Shield, Soul Shield & stuff) and who you need to take out first (typically the summoners). Ok, this worked pretty well here (except that I did not have Soul Shield or Element Shield yet, although I admit I was getting slightly worried by the level 16 and level 18 enemies (my party was level 7-8ish) that kept summoning demons and elementals and dodged my every attack. However, this is not the issue, as I enjoy the challenge... The duration of the battle was the issue. This battle alone took 1.5 hours REAL TIME (in turn-based mode, I always use that). A single battle! Being a married man, I seldom have that much time to play, PER DAY. The culprit? The stupid "friendly" creatures. They were lumbering around slowly, getting in my way, blocking my shots, etc. In other words, they were making the battle last at least twice as long as it otherwise would have! A single turn in this battle took as much real time as normal medium/big battle without the meddlesome friendly creatures. I actually found myself cheering every time when Baldhair or whatever friendly creature bought the farm ("Great, things will slightly speed up again."). I actually even considered declaring war on the friendly characters and ridding the world of them myself; they were just making the game very near unplayable. What stayed my hand was an earlier experience in the Monastery. I had inadvertently angered the group of adventurers (still not sure how, possibly by the new "hurt-everyone-make-no-distinction-between-friend-and-foe" spells), and found myself fighting them (in addition to the actual enemies). Sure, I beat them along with two groups of enemies, but that totally wrecked my Higardi ratings. Not good, as I want to be able to do some shopping in Arnika... As for the battle in Arnika (2 groups of frogs, 1 group of "mercenaries"), I think I could have won the combat without the help of the friendly creatures, but maybe not without casualties. On the other hand, Resurrection Powder is available, and I think that losing a PC or two would have been preferable to the hour&half slugfest. More to follow later on (when I have time to play again). [ 08-01-2005, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: seclists ]