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ScottG · 07-08-2003, 10:06 PM

In addition remember what class skills your giving up by transfer OR are improving through leveling up.

Hybrid to Pure:
You loose most of your combat abilites (weapons use, armor, special skills....) during a time when your more likely to need them (IMO) UNLESS you have party members that can fill this role (melee/ranged). If your characters are all hybrids than you can have a rotation point with respect to dualing. In otherwords keep two hybrids as hybrids at dual-time - when its time to dual the others back to hybrids then dual the final two hybrids. (Considering game timing and experience point/leveling-up this method isn't very effective unless you have only a 4 member party.)

Focusing on detriments-
For instance: Samurai to Mage looses sword, dual wield, armor, lightning strike, etc. - but keeps critical strike (though doesn't improve it). The upside is of course that they are improving their magic skills and level at a faster rate.

Pure to Hybrid:
This strategy is not unlike dualing a bishop near the end of the game to a fighter (to be able to use the infinity helm and to withstand attacks due to increased AC with armor use). Essentially your giving a magic user the ability to fight or and/or withstand physical attack. Whith this strategy chances are you have melee-meatshields (one or two in your party) to support these characters at the beginning of the game (otherwise I'd advise against this strategy). Also look at how you want to use the character - if you prefer them as mage casters with additional fighting ability then your ability focus will be on intelligence. If you want them more for their physical combat abilities with good magic casting then focus on those attributes needed for physical combat. If you want a compromise 50/50 character then utilize the attribute level-up that CT mentioned before.

Always look at those special skills that require class level for improvement and balance this with the fact that it will be 5 levels before the next level-up in magic. (Note however that the magic level-up penalty isn't as bad as it seems - it takes 3 levels to level up for a pure character vs. 5 levels for ONLY the first level-up upon becoming a hybrid. You are ONLY sacrificing at one level-up two levels, which seems to me to be more than fair for the additional magic BOTH early-on and throughout the game. Of course in addition it is only a sacrifice with respect to timing - your pure hybrid takes this penalty at the beginning.) Additionally note the penalty that CT has mentioned (nicely said CT), (I find this penalty minimal and rarely noticable). (In fact the trouble that you (Variol) are having is more than likely due to higher level monsters - not the defficancy that CT has mentioned - but this is only speculation on my part.) Also look at the spells that you will gain early on (particularly if they are resistance defense spells) and who else in your party can cast them WHEN you need them. The real balancing act here is to get those spells you need at the time you need them FOR THE PARTY (not necc. for that character). (In the past I found that I've needed them before level 12, but not anymore with the way I train my characters.) Look at the hitpoints your giving up with respect to this character and IF this character will need them - its entirely possible that there is no appreciable loss latter in the game depending on the way you develop your character. There will be the hitpoint detriment early in the game when your weak BUT you should have one-to-two meatshields in your party that can compensate (unless you develop a character for primarily meatshield activity and have Vitality for your major attribute). Finally realize that you have greater latitude for attribute point distribution early in the game to specialize your character one way or the other - (this is what I consider the real hidden bonus).

Focusing on detriments-
For instance: A Ranger's ranged critical and a to a lesser extent the Ninja's auto-penetration skills are PURELY level dependent. The latter you dual to these classes the less these special abilities will work throughout the game. This is why in the past I've suggested only going to level 8 as an alchemist and then dualing at level 9 to a ranger. The upside with this progression is that it allows 4th level spells early on AND still allows good development of critical attacks, (level 11 dualed at 12 I find unacceptable for critical attack development). Of course the other substantial detriment is that you will need your meatshield characters. Furthermore you have greater lattitude with respect to attribute increases because the Alchemist has only two minimum attributes wheras the Ranger has FIVE. This bonus is somewhat lessend in this case because the Alchemist requires 5 additional points in intelligence that the Ranger doesn't require (which may not be a detriment if you wish a magic heavy Ranger that utilizes intelligence as a primary attribute).

Upside down character-
One dualed character seems to break the rules on detriments - the Priest to Lord (Dwarf race). This character acts incredibly well as a melee-meatshield AND as a magic caster throughout the game if properly developed.

As an added note: I won't be posting what I have been writing until early August (to much editing - to little time), but this material really isn't on it so I thought I'd pop-in here.

07-08-2003, 10:06 PM	#7
ScottG Drow Warrior Join Date: June 13, 2003 Location: Never Never Land Age: 55 Posts: 267	In addition remember what class skills your giving up by transfer OR are improving through leveling up. Hybrid to Pure: You loose most of your combat abilites (weapons use, armor, special skills....) during a time when your more likely to need them (IMO) UNLESS you have party members that can fill this role (melee/ranged). If your characters are all hybrids than you can have a rotation point with respect to dualing. In otherwords keep two hybrids as hybrids at dual-time - when its time to dual the others back to hybrids then dual the final two hybrids. (Considering game timing and experience point/leveling-up this method isn't very effective unless you have only a 4 member party.) Focusing on detriments- For instance: Samurai to Mage looses sword, dual wield, armor, lightning strike, etc. - but keeps critical strike (though doesn't improve it). The upside is of course that they are improving their magic skills and level at a faster rate. Pure to Hybrid: This strategy is not unlike dualing a bishop near the end of the game to a fighter (to be able to use the infinity helm and to withstand attacks due to increased AC with armor use). Essentially your giving a magic user the ability to fight or and/or withstand physical attack. Whith this strategy chances are you have melee-meatshields (one or two in your party) to support these characters at the beginning of the game (otherwise I'd advise against this strategy). Also look at how you want to use the character - if you prefer them as mage casters with additional fighting ability then your ability focus will be on intelligence. If you want them more for their physical combat abilities with good magic casting then focus on those attributes needed for physical combat. If you want a compromise 50/50 character then utilize the attribute level-up that CT mentioned before. Always look at those special skills that require class level for improvement and balance this with the fact that it will be 5 levels before the next level-up in magic. (Note however that the magic level-up penalty isn't as bad as it seems - it takes 3 levels to level up for a pure character vs. 5 levels for ONLY the first level-up upon becoming a hybrid. You are ONLY sacrificing at one level-up two levels, which seems to me to be more than fair for the additional magic BOTH early-on and throughout the game. Of course in addition it is only a sacrifice with respect to timing - your pure hybrid takes this penalty at the beginning.) Additionally note the penalty that CT has mentioned (nicely said CT), (I find this penalty minimal and rarely noticable). (In fact the trouble that you (Variol) are having is more than likely due to higher level monsters - not the defficancy that CT has mentioned - but this is only speculation on my part.) Also look at the spells that you will gain early on (particularly if they are resistance defense spells) and who else in your party can cast them WHEN you need them. The real balancing act here is to get those spells you need at the time you need them FOR THE PARTY (not necc. for that character). (In the past I found that I've needed them before level 12, but not anymore with the way I train my characters.) Look at the hitpoints your giving up with respect to this character and IF this character will need them - its entirely possible that there is no appreciable loss latter in the game depending on the way you develop your character. There will be the hitpoint detriment early in the game when your weak BUT you should have one-to-two meatshields in your party that can compensate (unless you develop a character for primarily meatshield activity and have Vitality for your major attribute). Finally realize that you have greater latitude for attribute point distribution early in the game to specialize your character one way or the other - (this is what I consider the real hidden bonus). Focusing on detriments- For instance: A Ranger's ranged critical and a to a lesser extent the Ninja's auto-penetration skills are PURELY level dependent. The latter you dual to these classes the less these special abilities will work throughout the game. This is why in the past I've suggested only going to level 8 as an alchemist and then dualing at level 9 to a ranger. The upside with this progression is that it allows 4th level spells early on AND still allows good development of critical attacks, (level 11 dualed at 12 I find unacceptable for critical attack development). Of course the other substantial detriment is that you will need your meatshield characters. Furthermore you have greater lattitude with respect to attribute increases because the Alchemist has only two minimum attributes wheras the Ranger has FIVE. This bonus is somewhat lessend in this case because the Alchemist requires 5 additional points in intelligence that the Ranger doesn't require (which may not be a detriment if you wish a magic heavy Ranger that utilizes intelligence as a primary attribute). Upside down character- One dualed character seems to break the rules on detriments - the Priest to Lord (Dwarf race). This character acts incredibly well as a melee-meatshield AND as a magic caster throughout the game if properly developed. As an added note: I won't be posting what I have been writing until early August (to much editing - to little time), but this material really isn't on it so I thought I'd pop-in here.