Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post - What do you all think of wizards and warriors?

EEWorzelle · 03-06-2003, 11:26 AM

I took some time last night to review note, games and old posts.

I do not agree with those players who say there are *no* puzzles in W8, there are some. I am especially touched by the plight of those for whom English is not a first language, making what are intended to be trite, easy and meaningless riddles quite difficult.

There is no reason for "riddles" in RPGs, or even adventure games, even though both of the genres think it is part of their identity... yuck. There is, or at least should be, no gratification in being able to track with what some programmer or designer thought was "common sense."

Regarding the broken Ratkin tree bridge, Kakero, I do not know how difficult it would have been. When I first started I went to an exclusively "non-spoiler" board looking for party building strategy tips without spoilers. I remember being quite angry when the puzzle there was spoiled, in passing, by someone thoughtlessly posting in one of the new party threads. So I do not honestly know how hard it would have been to figure it out.

Difficulty in these games should, IMO, come from strategy and long term choices, rather than quirky and trite puzzles. In early adventure games it was possible to get stuck for dozens of hours with no progress in the game. That is not lack of wit or skill, it is poor design.

Desdicado, please give Wizardry 8 another try. I have read a lot of your posts and we love some of the same games. Long battles only occur in three situations in this game:

1) Prior to the first city, if one has not proceeded efficiently enough relative to the difficulty level one has been playing it (cumulative effect).

2) Around allies. They can help you fight but are slow and, once you proceed a ways, not much help.

3) A few battles later in the game that are intended to be long.

I am being honest and straight with you when I say that the problem with long battles mostly goes away. If you play the entire game through to the end, with or without the combat speed-up utility, and you still hate and find the combat system too slow, then I will freely admit I was wrong. It is not my intent to waste your time or money. Buy it (video stores have it again now). Play it. Call me a liar if you don't end up loving it.

03-06-2003, 11:26 AM	#19
EEWorzelle Manshoon Join Date: October 25, 2002 Location: Gilbert, Az Age: 73 Posts: 234	I took some time last night to review note, games and old posts. I do not agree with those players who say there are no puzzles in W8, there are some. I am especially touched by the plight of those for whom English is not a first language, making what are intended to be trite, easy and meaningless riddles quite difficult. There is no reason for "riddles" in RPGs, or even adventure games, even though both of the genres think it is part of their identity... yuck. There is, or at least should be, no gratification in being able to track with what some programmer or designer thought was "common sense." Regarding the broken Ratkin tree bridge, Kakero, I do not know how difficult it would have been. When I first started I went to an exclusively "non-spoiler" board looking for party building strategy tips without spoilers. I remember being quite angry when the puzzle there was spoiled, in passing, by someone thoughtlessly posting in one of the new party threads. So I do not honestly know how hard it would have been to figure it out. Difficulty in these games should, IMO, come from strategy and long term choices, rather than quirky and trite puzzles. In early adventure games it was possible to get stuck for dozens of hours with no progress in the game. That is not lack of wit or skill, it is poor design. Desdicado, please give Wizardry 8 another try. I have read a lot of your posts and we love some of the same games. Long battles only occur in three situations in this game: 1) Prior to the first city, if one has not proceeded efficiently enough relative to the difficulty level one has been playing it (cumulative effect). 2) Around allies. They can help you fight but are slow and, once you proceed a ways, not much help. 3) A few battles later in the game that are intended to be long. I am being honest and straight with you when I say that the problem with long battles mostly goes away. If you play the entire game through to the end, with or without the combat speed-up utility, and you still hate and find the combat system too slow, then I will freely admit I was wrong. It is not my intent to waste your time or money. Buy it (video stores have it again now). Play it. Call me a liar if you don't end up loving it.