Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post - Haste (mostly strategic

EEWorzelle · 02-11-2003, 04:09 PM

A lot of insights were given a while back by veteran players attending this board concerning Speed and Haste. I couldn't find that thread and apparently I'm not supposed to bump it on this board, for some reason, if I do. Know that I am reporting... insights about the game here, but do not claim any of it as my own discoveries or ideas. A new development has been brought to light about this and I wanted to post this here so those of us posting here also have the opportunity to "wring it out" a bit.

Haste takes effect immediately when it is cast, with no delay. The amount of Speed it adds is so large that all characters can easily be at 125 Speed, with all benefits, while it is in effect. The strategy, which has held up on other boards too, AFAIK, is to always have one character cast Haste in the first round. The idea was to have one fast character that could cast Haste fast and then everyone in the party would immediately have 125 Speed.

That's true and what happens (at least in those portions of the game where casting Haste is possible) but, as pointed out by a couple players on another board, that does not change the order of casting spells in the round it is cast. Maybe some of you already know about this, but if this is new news or if you doubt it, then do some experimentation in your own games to verify. There is no need for speculation about it. There are some implications of this:

1) Casting Haste in the first round is important, but there is little benefit given by casting Haste early in the first round rather than later in the first round. Cast early in the first round, it will give extra ranged swings and attacks, for those players who have not already moved, and it would do the same for melee but there is rarely melee contact at the beginning of the first round of combat. Also, many times those who would benefit from this little ranged bonus need to cast a spell or take a potion in the first round, before the enemy comes into contact.

2) Arguably the most important thing to do fast when entering combat in this game is cast Soul Shield and Element Shield (and possibly Eye for Eye in some situations). If you do not rely on always surprising your magically-tough foes, then there is no substitute for the casters of these two shield spells being fast (100 Speed and Snake Speed. 100 Senses alone is probably not enough). Is there a problem if you don't cast these before the enemy spell casters get to cast? Not usually, but sometimes they will cripple your casters magically then, without screens, systematically cut the party to ribbons. Apparently, some players take the time and effort using X-Ray and Chameleon, to gain the skills and patience to always surprise the enemy. If you have fast Soul and Element Shield casters, you can get there first even without the element of surprise. Without those shields you may need to reload every now and then (unless playing IM).

Unless I missed it and you all say, "yeah we knew about that months ago," the new piece is that casting Haste fast, early in the first round does not guarantee getting your Soul and Element Shields up in time. Without this, the benefit of Haste, in the round it is cast, is very minimal, so much so that the Haster does not need to be fast (unless you want that character to also be fast under water for unrelated reasons).

For example a Haster with a Speed of 55 before casting Haste, and 125 Speed afterward, will still get it cast sometime in the first round if not crippled and prevented from doing so by the enemy. Preventing crippling is a matter of casting Soul and Element Shield fast (or in the surprise round), and casting Haste will not bump a slow caster to the front of the line, in the round it is cast.

Make sense?

02-11-2003, 04:09 PM	#1
EEWorzelle Manshoon Join Date: October 25, 2002 Location: Gilbert, Az Age: 73 Posts: 234	A lot of insights were given a while back by veteran players attending this board concerning Speed and Haste. I couldn't find that thread and apparently I'm not supposed to bump it on this board, for some reason, if I do. Know that I am reporting... insights about the game here, but do not claim any of it as my own discoveries or ideas. A new development has been brought to light about this and I wanted to post this here so those of us posting here also have the opportunity to "wring it out" a bit. Haste takes effect immediately when it is cast, with no delay. The amount of Speed it adds is so large that all characters can easily be at 125 Speed, with all benefits, while it is in effect. The strategy, which has held up on other boards too, AFAIK, is to always have one character cast Haste in the first round. The idea was to have one fast character that could cast Haste fast and then everyone in the party would immediately have 125 Speed. That's true and what happens (at least in those portions of the game where casting Haste is possible) but, as pointed out by a couple players on another board, that does not change the order of casting spells in the round it is cast. Maybe some of you already know about this, but if this is new news or if you doubt it, then do some experimentation in your own games to verify. There is no need for speculation about it. There are some implications of this: 1) Casting Haste in the first round is important, but there is little benefit given by casting Haste early in the first round rather than later in the first round. Cast early in the first round, it will give extra ranged swings and attacks, for those players who have not already moved, and it would do the same for melee but there is rarely melee contact at the beginning of the first round of combat. Also, many times those who would benefit from this little ranged bonus need to cast a spell or take a potion in the first round, before the enemy comes into contact. 2) Arguably the most important thing to do fast when entering combat in this game is cast Soul Shield and Element Shield (and possibly Eye for Eye in some situations). If you do not rely on always surprising your magically-tough foes, then there is no substitute for the casters of these two shield spells being fast (100 Speed and Snake Speed. 100 Senses alone is probably not enough). Is there a problem if you don't cast these before the enemy spell casters get to cast? Not usually, but sometimes they will cripple your casters magically then, without screens, systematically cut the party to ribbons. Apparently, some players take the time and effort using X-Ray and Chameleon, to gain the skills and patience to always surprise the enemy. If you have fast Soul and Element Shield casters, you can get there first even without the element of surprise. Without those shields you may need to reload every now and then (unless playing IM). Unless I missed it and you all say, "yeah we knew about that months ago," the new piece is that casting Haste fast, early in the first round does not guarantee getting your Soul and Element Shields up in time. Without this, the benefit of Haste, in the round it is cast, is very minimal, so much so that the Haster does not need to be fast (unless you want that character to also be fast under water for unrelated reasons). For example a Haster with a Speed of 55 before casting Haste, and 125 Speed afterward, will still get it cast sometime in the first round if not crippled and prevented from doing so by the enemy. Preventing crippling is a matter of casting Soul and Element Shield fast (or in the surprise round), and casting Haste will not bump a slow caster to the front of the line, in the round it is cast. Make sense?