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ScottG · 08-14-2003, 03:29 PM

The idea for this (VERY interesting) class combination is this:
1. Increased AC (so you can cast a spell and not be killed from 2-3 attacks)
2. Slightly better hit points early (again so you can take more than 2 hits and not get killed)
3. Improved physical attacks (and extra attacks with flurry of blows) and damage potential (and stunning blow)
4. Stealth ability
5. High damage spells (and plenty of them) latter in the game)
6. Pixie Familar to pick locks and disarm traps

(all of which equals a solo-game if desired)

I wanted to play this dual-class in NWN, (and for that matter in BG2 - impossible there however), but it just didn't seem that "optimized" considering that wisdom is your AC modifier and this works with druid and cleric classes (not sorcerers and wizards), and that you loose out on the massive unarmed attacks latter in level. Of course clerics and druids don't suffer an ac penalty when casting, so whats the point there? So for NWN I went with something close to a pure Monk.

For this game however I reconsidered, after all if you top out at about level 12+ in this game then a Sorcerer only needs 15 in charisma (as planned below) and at level 12 you can always take your attribute increase in charisma to allow for additional unexpected levels.

So I planned a Monk for two levels and at 3rd level to continue with a Sorcer for the rest of the game. The second level in Monk allows for a +1 in unarmed attack but more importantly gives the Deflect Arrows feat for free (and we all know that arrows are the bane of any spell caster), of course hit points were getting a bump as well.

The initial attributes were as follows:
str 8
dex 16
con 14
int 10
wis 12
chr 15

(note: at level 3 the feat Weapon Finesse must be chosen to overcome the lack of bonuses to hit because of the pitiful str value. Additionally dex should be chosen at level 4 and 8 to continue the character "theme". Finally max out Hide, Move Silently, and Concentration while a Monk and while a Sorcerer Max out SpellCraft with your secondary in Concentration.)

This then gives +3 AC from the Dexerity bonus and +1 AC from the wisdom bonus and at level 3 (with Weapon Finesse) gives a hit bonus of +3.

At level 3 (your first level as a Sorcerer) the cantrips are next to useless (including daze) but mage armor and true strike worked very well. Mage Armor gives an extra +4 to AC and True Strike allows you a much better chance of having a succesfull stunning blow (on those tough opponents), alternativly you could add even more AC with Shield spell (+3 for monk) instead of the True Strike.

Well in SOU I found level 4 to be difficult (but not impossible). The problem wasn't with the plan, its the fact that Monks get hosed with the Aurora attack engine on damage if you utilize a dexterity based Monk. Sure the damage is still 1d6 but I'd typically see only 1-2 hit points of damage repeatedly with a rare 5 hit points of damage. In addition to this tough opponets would still hit me fairly often (even with mage armor) and the damage was enough to make things VERY difficult.

So when did things get better? At level 4 in the game it wasn't the level that mattered, it was having enough cash to go and purchase Adventurer robes to soak the first 5 points of damage. Additionally the damage potential increased dramatically when I found some Monk gloves (that on paper only added +1 damage and +1 hit). Now with the gloves the Aurora engine seemed to be working like it should. Typically (without factoring in the +1 in damage provided by the gloves) I'd see a full range of damage (1-6). So late in level 4 I aquired these items and things stopped being so depressing and started being enjoyable again. It became a bit easier at level 5 with the addition of Shield added to the spell list.

Things got a LOT better at level 6. Then I could cast summon creature 2 which adds tremendously to the damage potential (the level 1 summon wasn't worth it). Opponents would focus on player character (rarely hiting with Mage Armor and Shield in place) allowing both the player character and the summon to pound away on opponents (in fact I would have had extreme difficulties getting past the first elemental w/out it). Additionally I chose the feat Circle Kick which for the most part is AWESOME, but it can be problematic when you have 1 really tough opponent and several weaker opponents. In those instances you need to click attack on the tough opponent after a circle kick to a weaker opponent, otherwise you will end up continuing your attack against that weaker opponent.

I'm now at level 8 and have a HUGE grin on my face. Taking away all items the Monk Sorcerer has 18 in dex and has these combat stats:
AC = 16 (see below)
Attack = 8/5 (not including the extra attacks from flurry of blows, cleave, and circle kick)
Damage = 1-6

with items:
AC = 16
Attack = 11/8, gloves of the Hin Fist (again not including the extras)
Damage = 1-6 +2, gloves of the Hin Fist

with Mage Armor:
AC = 20

with Shield spell:
AC = 23

with Cat's Grace:
AC = 24
Attack = 12/9

Note: No additional feats were selected that add AC benifits because they cancel-out with the AC modifier spells. Instead at first level (as a Human) I chose Blooded and Improved Innitiative (total +6 initiative which is great for both classes). The massive increase to initiative plus the increase in attacks makes killing magic casters VERY easy because you typically hit them at least 2 times while there trying to cast a spell and because of this I'd say you have better than 2/3rds chance at disrupting their spells.

Oh, at level 7 Magic Missiles have enough damage to be worth while (great for softening up difficult physical combat opponents at the beginning of combat when out of melee range). At level 8 you now have 3 fire balls to fire-off (FUN). Essentially of course at level 8 your becoming a real spell caster rather than just a melee support caster.

The only negatives I've found to this character for SOU is that level 4 problem (primarily because of cash) and that I can't carry much stuff (I purchase holding bags at interlude to recover from this problem). (Note the analysis I've provided here is with a SOLO character up through the end of the first portion of the Interlude.)

[ 09-03-2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: ScottG ]

08-14-2003, 03:29 PM	#1
ScottG Drow Warrior Join Date: June 13, 2003 Location: Never Never Land Age: 55 Posts: 267	The idea for this (VERY interesting) class combination is this: 1. Increased AC (so you can cast a spell and not be killed from 2-3 attacks) 2. Slightly better hit points early (again so you can take more than 2 hits and not get killed) 3. Improved physical attacks (and extra attacks with flurry of blows) and damage potential (and stunning blow) 4. Stealth ability 5. High damage spells (and plenty of them) latter in the game) 6. Pixie Familar to pick locks and disarm traps (all of which equals a solo-game if desired) I wanted to play this dual-class in NWN, (and for that matter in BG2 - impossible there however), but it just didn't seem that "optimized" considering that wisdom is your AC modifier and this works with druid and cleric classes (not sorcerers and wizards), and that you loose out on the massive unarmed attacks latter in level. Of course clerics and druids don't suffer an ac penalty when casting, so whats the point there? So for NWN I went with something close to a pure Monk. For this game however I reconsidered, after all if you top out at about level 12+ in this game then a Sorcerer only needs 15 in charisma (as planned below) and at level 12 you can always take your attribute increase in charisma to allow for additional unexpected levels. So I planned a Monk for two levels and at 3rd level to continue with a Sorcer for the rest of the game. The second level in Monk allows for a +1 in unarmed attack but more importantly gives the Deflect Arrows feat for free (and we all know that arrows are the bane of any spell caster), of course hit points were getting a bump as well. The initial attributes were as follows: str 8 dex 16 con 14 int 10 wis 12 chr 15 (note: at level 3 the feat Weapon Finesse must be chosen to overcome the lack of bonuses to hit because of the pitiful str value. Additionally dex should be chosen at level 4 and 8 to continue the character "theme". Finally max out Hide, Move Silently, and Concentration while a Monk and while a Sorcerer Max out SpellCraft with your secondary in Concentration.) This then gives +3 AC from the Dexerity bonus and +1 AC from the wisdom bonus and at level 3 (with Weapon Finesse) gives a hit bonus of +3. At level 3 (your first level as a Sorcerer) the cantrips are next to useless (including daze) but mage armor and true strike worked very well. Mage Armor gives an extra +4 to AC and True Strike allows you a much better chance of having a succesfull stunning blow (on those tough opponents), alternativly you could add even more AC with Shield spell (+3 for monk) instead of the True Strike. Well in SOU I found level 4 to be difficult (but not impossible). The problem wasn't with the plan, its the fact that Monks get hosed with the Aurora attack engine on damage if you utilize a dexterity based Monk. Sure the damage is still 1d6 but I'd typically see only 1-2 hit points of damage repeatedly with a rare 5 hit points of damage. In addition to this tough opponets would still hit me fairly often (even with mage armor) and the damage was enough to make things VERY difficult. So when did things get better? At level 4 in the game it wasn't the level that mattered, it was having enough cash to go and purchase Adventurer robes to soak the first 5 points of damage. Additionally the damage potential increased dramatically when I found some Monk gloves (that on paper only added +1 damage and +1 hit). Now with the gloves the Aurora engine seemed to be working like it should. Typically (without factoring in the +1 in damage provided by the gloves) I'd see a full range of damage (1-6). So late in level 4 I aquired these items and things stopped being so depressing and started being enjoyable again. It became a bit easier at level 5 with the addition of Shield added to the spell list. Things got a LOT better at level 6. Then I could cast summon creature 2 which adds tremendously to the damage potential (the level 1 summon wasn't worth it). Opponents would focus on player character (rarely hiting with Mage Armor and Shield in place) allowing both the player character and the summon to pound away on opponents (in fact I would have had extreme difficulties getting past the first elemental w/out it). Additionally I chose the feat Circle Kick which for the most part is AWESOME, but it can be problematic when you have 1 really tough opponent and several weaker opponents. In those instances you need to click attack on the tough opponent after a circle kick to a weaker opponent, otherwise you will end up continuing your attack against that weaker opponent. I'm now at level 8 and have a HUGE grin on my face. Taking away all items the Monk Sorcerer has 18 in dex and has these combat stats: AC = 16 (see below) Attack = 8/5 (not including the extra attacks from flurry of blows, cleave, and circle kick) Damage = 1-6 with items: AC = 16 Attack = 11/8, gloves of the Hin Fist (again not including the extras) Damage = 1-6 +2, gloves of the Hin Fist with Mage Armor: AC = 20 with Shield spell: AC = 23 with Cat's Grace: AC = 24 Attack = 12/9 Note: No additional feats were selected that add AC benifits because they cancel-out with the AC modifier spells. Instead at first level (as a Human) I chose Blooded and Improved Innitiative (total +6 initiative which is great for both classes). The massive increase to initiative plus the increase in attacks makes killing magic casters VERY easy because you typically hit them at least 2 times while there trying to cast a spell and because of this I'd say you have better than 2/3rds chance at disrupting their spells. Oh, at level 7 Magic Missiles have enough damage to be worth while (great for softening up difficult physical combat opponents at the beginning of combat when out of melee range). At level 8 you now have 3 fire balls to fire-off (FUN). Essentially of course at level 8 your becoming a real spell caster rather than just a melee support caster. The only negatives I've found to this character for SOU is that level 4 problem (primarily because of cash) and that I can't carry much stuff (I purchase holding bags at interlude to recover from this problem). (Note the analysis I've provided here is with a SOLO character up through the end of the first portion of the Interlude.) [ 09-03-2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: ScottG ]