[Yorick]

Originally posted by Fionnguala MacMorna: First, I feel I should address this "Gypsy" issue. The word itself refers to a stereotype of nomadic people who borrow from cultures and typically are entertainers or "rogues." That Romany people may or may not be gypsies is another thing. Romany people need not say that they are "gypsies," since that's actually a different term, and definately not one given to them by themselves. Let's not say that Romany = Gypsy, because it doesn't, and therefore there's no need for anyone to get their feathers ruffled.

Ah, yes they are. Romanies are Gypsies. Don't know where you're getting your information bro.

Taken from: http://www.worldlanguage.com/Languages/Romany.htm

Romany is the language of the Gypsies. The origin of the Gypsies was long a matter of speculation. The English word "Gypsy" stems from an early belief that they came from Egypt. This has now been disproved. The question was resolved by the science of linguistics. Detailed study of the Gypsy language has shown that the Gypsies originally came from India. The common features it shares with Sanskrit and later Indian languages can lead to no other conclusion. The Gypsies are believed to have begun their migration westward about 1000 A.D. Loanwords in their language from Persian, Armenian, and Greek provide some indication of the general course of their travels. Today Gypsies are to be found in many countries of both Eastern and Western Europe as well as in the United States. A rough estimate of their numbers would be in the neighborhood of 5-6 million. The name Romany is derived from the Gypsy word rom, which means "man." Dialects vary considerably, each strongly influenced by the language of the country in which it is spoken. The English word "pal" is of Gypsy origin, coming from the Romany word phral, which means "brother."

Taken from: http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/Romany.html

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.■■2001. ■ Romany ■ ■ (rm´n, r´–)■(KEY)■, language belonging to the Dardic group of the Indo-Iranian subfamily of the Indo-European family of languages (see Indo-Iranian languages). The mother tongue of the Gypsies, Romany has about 2 million speakers, largely outside India. The Gypsies apparently began migrating from NW India westward before the 9th cent. A.D. and had reached SE Europe before the 14th cent. They now live principally in central and E Europe and in Spain, although there are groups in the Western Hemisphere as well. Romany has three main dialectal groups: Asian, Armenian, and European. In grammar it can be traced back to Sanskrit. It has borrowed considerable vocabulary from the languages of the various peoples among whom its speakers have lived and roamed. There is no important literature in Romany, but some biblical translations into Romany exist, for which both the Roman and Cyrillic alphabets were used. ■■■1 See J. Sampson, The Dialect of the Gypsies of Wales (1925); R. L. Turner, Position of Romani in Indo-Aryan (1927); J. Kochanowski, Gypsy Studies (1963). ■■■2

And finally from the same site:

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.■■2001. ■ Gypsies ■ ■ or Gipsies [from Egypt, because of an inaccurate idea that Gypsies came from a so-called Little Egypt], a traditionally nomadic people with particular folkways and a unique language, found on every continent; they often refer to themselves as Roma. Their language, called Romany, belongs to the Indo-Iranian family and is closely related to the languages of NW India, while their blood groupings have also been found to coincide with those of S Himalayan tribes. Gypsies worldwide are estimated to number between 6 and 7 million. ■■■1 In the course of their wanderings, Gypsies have occasionally mixed with non-Gypsy neighbors and have sometimes settled down, but they have clung tenaciously to their identity and customs. Their physical type has remained largely unaltered; most Gypsies are dark-complexioned, short, and lightly built. Their bands are still ruled by elders. Gypsies have usually adopted the religion of their country of residence; probably the greater number are Roman Catholic or Orthodox Eastern Christian. Each year in May they gather in S France from all over the world for a pilgrimage to Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer. Gypsies usually travel in small caravans and make their living as metalworkers, singers, dancers, musicians, horse dealers, and auto mechanics. Gypsy women are famous as fortunetellers. ■■■2 It is believed that they came originally from NW India, which they left for Persia in the 1st millennium A.D. Probably during their sojourn in Persia, they became divided into three main tribal divisions: the Gitanos, the Kalderash, and the Manush. Later they moved northward and westward, and are recorded as first appearing in Western Europe in the 15th cent. Alternately welcomed and persecuted by civil and religious authorities, they moved from country to country until they had spread to every part of Europe by the beginning of the 16th cent. They arrived in North America in the late 1800s. ■■■3 In modern times, and especially since the beginning of the 20th cent., various nations have attempted to end their nomadic lifestyle by requiring them to register and to go to school and learn trades. Some 500,000 perished in gas chambers and concentration camps during World War II. In 1956 the Soviet Union decreed that the last wandering Gypsy bands in that country be gradually settled in places of their choice. The countries of E Europe, where the great majority of Gypsies live, adopted similar measures under Communist rule, and most Gypsies eventually found economic and social protection, if not full acceptance. However, following the fall of Communism in the early 1990s, persecution of the Gypsies arose once more in E Europe. ■■■4 ■ Bibliography See G. Borrow, The Romany Rye (1857, new ed. 1949, repr. 1959); I. H. Brown, Gypsy Fires in America (1924); Gipsy Petulengro’s autobiography, A Romany Life (1935); J. Yoors, The Gypsies (1967); D. Kenrick and G. Puxon, The Destiny of Europe’s Gypsies (1972); D. Mayall, Gypsie-Travellers in Nineteenth Century Society (1988); I. Fonseca, Bury Me Standing: The Gypsies and Their Journey (1995). ■■■5 ■ ■ The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Copyright © 2001 Columbia University Press

[ 07-07-2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]