[CTHULHU007]

"So tell me then one thing. What does CHess, Soccer football and the constitution of US have to do with Roleplaying? Rules are rules and they have changed progressivly since people wants change in most games. Computers change or would you still like an ABC 80? I have a friend that have one he doesn´t use it. And change is a good thing, but not for you it seems, but for many others.
Sure you see it as a Diablo clone, ROLLplaying as you say, but quite frankly it is not we who like it who has a problem and can roleplay it. We can we like it it. So don´t go calling 3:ed players mongrels when you can´t coup with the change. Tell me what is the difference truelly between an AC of -12 and a AC of 22?? Is it roleplaying or rollplaying?"

It was not my intent to suggest they had something in common. It was my attempt to show you that some things are best left unchanged. Change is NOT always good. You sound like some political canidate spouting that change is good crap [img]smile.gif[/img] . If somethings good you don't change it. If it's not broke why fix it? Oh I forgot...to sell more copies. Never heard of an ABC 20. Although I still have a Commodore 64 which was a great system for it's time...and yes I still play some of those great old games on an emulator from time to time lol. The difference between A.C. -12 and A.C. 22? The difference there is big numbers make Mongo happy sell Mongo more copies not a question of Roleplayer or Rollplayer.

"It´s your problem mate, YOU can´t roleplay it cause you read ROLLplay into the complete system. It might not be your basic or your Dungeons and Dragons and for that I´m sorry, and further sorry that you can´t roleplay and make due with the old ruleset and play on. But why? No new modules? I thought you were into Roleplaying? Do you really need more modules for that? Why not continue making adventures and characterr the way you liked to play?? If you play in a group of players and you are the DM you play 1:st edition right or has your group converted to 3:ed?"

It seems you misunderstand me. The Roleplayer/Rollplayer analogy I used was in referring to those that place the most importance on the (acting out) part of the game and don't give a damn what ruleset they use. Those I would call ROLEplayers. They don't give a damn about the ROLLplay within the game just the (acting). I did not say that roleplay was not apart of my gaming. It has always been apart of the Dungeons & Dragons. BTW you totally missed my point about continuing to play 1st ED. I full well plan on continuing to play the old game with my local group of older players...but as I said THE PLAYER BASE IS GONE or at least GREATLY diminished. There will NOT be many new players that wish to play the old game. Comprehend?
I do make (homemade)adventures and always have. However I did like getting new material occasionally.
No my old group has not converted to 3rd ED. I'm happy to say they ALL hate it just as much as me and with no prodding from me. One of them was unfortunate enough to purchase some of the material which is where I got my viewing of the rules.

"And by the way, I get a hunch you haven´t read the rules and played it that much since you seem to have lost the advantages of playing a human in 3:ed. And your comparison to Diablo skills?? Where the heck can a Diablo character learn diplomacy in that game? Read lips?? Class restrictions isn´t there anymore but as said before. The DM makes more than 75% of the game being played. Thats roleplaying, you set rules, you change what you don´t like. Thats roleplaying my friend.
And Thac0 leads to the same thing as the 3:ed system, did you hit or not?"

Your absolutely right about me not playing it that much. Why would I play something over and over that I dispise? I have read over the rules however as stated above. It was an instant dislike. My comparison to Diablo is completly valid and most probably a true occurence that WOTC designed it to be so. The addition of a few more skills does not change the comparison. Some of the skill names even have the exact same names as those in Diablo 2 lol. I agree that a good DM is a definite requirement for a good game. The DM does NOT change the set core rules of the game though. He does not because the rules are there for a reason. For game balance. Following the rules of the game and using them to their max potential combined with ROLEplay to make an enjoyable game for all. THAT'S a roleplaying game.

"Speak for yourself, I had many good games in the old systems and I did grasp the rules very well. Some people however like the change for something that we feel is for the better.

The new games makes it easier to customize it since you can take things you don´t like and drop on the floor and easy add your own flavor to the game. You don´t like feats, drop them. You don´t like sneak attacks, remove it. You can remove the level system as well. The question is what to remove and what to add, but it´s up to you. I´m sorry but I don´t buy your critique, the suggestions you have made is either IMHO that you have not grapsed the new rules as you claim the youngsters here to not have with the old systems or there are not nearly enough restrictions for you.

You are bashing away pretty heavy, but you are vague in your arguments, and you don´t need to clarify if you don´t. You don´t like 3:ed.. By the way did I tell you I like 3:ed better than 2:nd edition?"

I don't mind change ...when it's for the good, but as I already said change is NOT always for the better in the real world. The new game... you said it. That's the core. WHY FIX IT WHEN IT'S NOT BROKE? You want a NEW game make a NEW game don't replace/rewrite an old one with it.
Hmm if I hadn't grasped the rules I wouldn't dislike 3rd ED so. Aye you are right there aren't enough restrictions, but that's not the core of my argument which should be apparent.
BTW I never called anyone a Mongrel lol. I merely think that those that actually prefer 3rd ED are...misguided.

Did you know there is a D&D conversion Mod for Diablo 2? I'm sure it was an easy one to make lol.

[ 04-28-2002, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: CTHULHU007 ]