Quote:
Originally posted by krunchyfrogg:
Yeah, but a Fighter and Ranger basically max out their power at level 13 (I know they gain more power after this, but it is minimal), while a spellcaster keeps getting more powerful at every level in this game. That's why you really want (in general, I know there are some exceptions) to dual class FROM a Fighter or Thief (Thieves max out their usefulness too) INTO a spellcasting class.
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krunchyfrogg,
I agree with both your points; but with a small caveat on the first: Something I did not realize until maybe a year ago is that warrior THAC0 drops (improves) by one point for each CLVL. You would expect an extra 4 points of THAC0 of an MC(17) to be a killer advantage; but the 5 PP stack gives the DC(13) a point in THAC0, bringing the MC's total advantage to only 3 points. The extra 3 PP also add in bonus damage points. But the "double killer" advantage is that the DC gets the extra ApR at 5 PP.
Compare expected approximate "damage per round" numbers for an MC F(17)/C(xx) and a DC F(13)/C(yy) with, say, a +3 Morning Star (2D4+3 = average 8HP damage), and +3 sling (1D4+3 = average 5.5 HP damage) on "soft" (AC = 0) and "hard" (AC = -10) targets in the late game. (See APPENDIX, below my sig, if you are interested in the mathematical details.) It's an overall very slight advantage for the MC with Sling, but the DC is clearly superior in any and all cases with the close-in weapon.
Sling___Soft___Hard
DC(13)__29.8___16.4 --> DC is 9% better against soft target
MC(17)__27.4___19.2 --> MC is 17% better against hard target
M'star__Soft___Hard
DC(13)__56.7___31.2 --> DC is 70% better against soft target
MC(17)__33.3___23.3 \-> DC is 34% better against hard target
I ran the numbers out of curiousity: The MC Fighter must reach F(20) to be on parity with the DC F(13) using a Morningstar +3 against a "hard" target, assuming both stacked PP to their max. But, no matter how experienced the MC gets, the DC will always and forever be 70% better against a soft target. That's the power of stacking PP.
Hope you found this interesting.
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What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
APPENDIX:
The DC F(13) has 3 PP in Sling, and assume STR = 18/50. So damage = 5.5 + 3 (for 3PP) + 4 (STR bonus) = 12.5 HP average damage per hit. APR = 2 + 0.5 (for 3PP) = 2.5 ApR. THAC0 = 7 (natural) - 3 (for 3PP) - 3 (weapon bonus) = 1. If all hits landed, the damage per round would be 12.5 * 2.5 = 31.25 HP. Since 95% and 50% of blows land for a "soft" and "hard" target (see below), then the average damage corrected for critical hits and misses, is 29.8 and 16.4 respectively.
The DC F(13) numbers for the Morningstar, are: damage = 8 + 5 (for 5PP) + 4 = 17 HP; and APR = 2 + 1.5 (for 5PP) = 3.5 ApR. THAC0 = 7 (natural) - 3 (for 5PP) - 3 (weapon bonus) = 1. If all hits landed, the damage per round would be 17 * 3.5 = 59.5 HP. Since 95% and 50% of blows land for a "soft" and "hard" target (see below), then the average damage is about 56.7 and 31.2, respectively.
For the DC F(13) for both weapons, the chance for hit against a late game "soft target" (AC = 0) is (21 - 1 + 0)/20 = 20/20 = 100% which is greater than 95%, so chance = 95%. Chance for hit against a late game "hard target" (AC = -10) is (21 - 1 + (-10))/20 = 10/20 = 50%.
The MC F(17) has 2 PP in Sling, and assume STR = 18/50. So damage = 5.5 + 2 (for 2PP) + 4 (STR bonus) = 11.5 HP average damage per hit. APR = 2 + 0.5 (for 2PP) = 2.5 ApR. THAC0 = 3 (natural) - 2 (for 2PP) - 3 (weapon bonus) = -2. If all hits landed, the damage per round would be 11.5 * 2.5 = 28.8 HP. Since 95% and 65% of blows land for a "soft" and "hard" target (see below), then the average damage is about 27.4 and 19.2 respectively.
The MC F(17) numbers for the Morningstar, are: damage = 8 + 2 (for 2PP) + 4 = 14 HP; and APR = 2 + 0.5 (for 2PP) = 2.5 ApR. THAC0 = 3 (natural) - 2 (for 2PP) - 3 (weapon bonus) = -2. If all hits landed, the damage per round would be 14 * 2.5 = 35.0 HP. Since 95% and 65% of blows land for a "soft" and "hard" target (see below), then the average damage is about 33.3 and 23.3 respectively.
For the MC F(17) for both weapons, the chance for hit against a late game "soft target" (AC = 0) is (21 - (-2) + 0)/20 = 23/20 = 115% which is greater than 95%, so chance = 95%. Chance for hit against a late game "hard target" (AC = -10) is (21 - (-2) + (-10))/20 = 13/20 = 65%.
Example of correcting for critical hits and misses: If chance to hit is 65%, then blow lands 13 times out of 20 attempts. One of those 13 (on average) will be a critical hit, counting double (which is the same as adding in another hit) so muliply by (14/13). A critical miss means you lose the next attack, and an average of 1 in 20 attacks results in a critical miss; so multiply by (20/21). So adjusted effective hits per attempt is 65% * (14/13) * (20/21) = 66.67% .