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NobleNick · 10-06-2005, 06:04 PM

lost prophet,

If it were me, I would take BOTH the Fighters that you were going to DC at F(9) to at least F(12) instead. This will give you a Bard(15), Thief(11) and Cleric(9) when the other Fighters DC at 13. I don't think it will be as painful as you fear.

IF you disagree (i.e., you *do* think the pain of doing this is too much) then at least take the F/C to F(12) before the DC, and let the F/T go to F(11). This will give you an active Fighter back before the others DC at 13. Actually, if you can't stand the pain of the Fighterless gap, you would have a stronger end game party, and enjoy the mid-game more, by using an MC F/T and letting EVERY DC Fighter go to F(13).

The reason for getting as many Fighter levels in as possible is that your Fighter's THAC0 will dominate in the finished character, and every Fighter level is worth an extra THAC0 point. So, your F(11)/T has a 2 point THAC0 advantage over a F(9)/T; and your F(12)/C will forever and always have a natural 3 point advantage (lower THAC0) over a F(9)/C. That is a lot: You would have to stack Recitation and Prayer to give each character in your party that advantage.

In addition, if that extra PP he gets at F(12) is used to take a melee weapon from 4 PP to 5PP (Grand Mastery) then your character also gains an extra damage point and a *FULL* bonus ApR with that weapon! If you already have GM, use the point to take the ranged weapon from 2 PP to 3 PP, which gives your slinger an extra 2 points THAC0 and +1 bonus damage, making the Sling (or Bow) much more deadly.

If you take the F/C to F(13) instead of F(9) (so then you would have 2 F(13)/C characters), then he will have a +1 to damage, a 4 point bonus to natural THAC0, and an extra 1.5 ApR in melee (and an extra 0.5 ApR, and possibly an EXTRA 2 point bonus to THAC0, in ranged weapon) over the F(9)---> CONSIDERABLY meaner. And you will want to tap all that extra effectiveness in HoW (especially on HoF); because your F/Cs will likely be on the front line all the time. (My C(12)/R and F(13)/C are destined to be the party's tanks when I hit HoW; and, based on previous experience with similar builds, I expect them to perform most excellently in the role.)

Believe me: If you DC out of Fighter any time BEFORE making F(13), you will **NOT** be saying to yourself in the late game, "Oh, I wished I had DCed out of Fighter earlier." There is no doubt that a F(13)/T(17) is more useful that a F(9)/T(21); and **I** personally would prefer a F(13)/C(15) over a F(9)/C(19) This is true for a Normal IWD/HoW/TotLM game, and is even more applicable to your HoF-enhanced experience, where you can easily achieve F(13)/C(20+).

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

10-06-2005, 06:04 PM	#6
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	lost prophet, If it were me, I would take BOTH the Fighters that you were going to DC at F(9) to at least F(12) instead. This will give you a Bard(15), Thief(11) and Cleric(9) when the other Fighters DC at 13. I don't think it will be as painful as you fear. IF you disagree (i.e., you do think the pain of doing this is too much) then at least take the F/C to F(12) before the DC, and let the F/T go to F(11). This will give you an active Fighter back before the others DC at 13. Actually, if you can't stand the pain of the Fighterless gap, you would have a stronger end game party, and enjoy the mid-game more, by using an MC F/T and letting EVERY DC Fighter go to F(13). The reason for getting as many Fighter levels in as possible is that your Fighter's THAC0 will dominate in the finished character, and every Fighter level is worth an extra THAC0 point. So, your F(11)/T has a 2 point THAC0 advantage over a F(9)/T; and your F(12)/C will forever and always have a natural 3 point advantage (lower THAC0) over a F(9)/C. That is a lot: You would have to stack Recitation and Prayer to give each character in your party that advantage. In addition, if that extra PP he gets at F(12) is used to take a melee weapon from 4 PP to 5PP (Grand Mastery) then your character also gains an extra damage point and a FULL bonus ApR with that weapon! If you already have GM, use the point to take the ranged weapon from 2 PP to 3 PP, which gives your slinger an extra 2 points THAC0 and +1 bonus damage, making the Sling (or Bow) much more deadly. If you take the F/C to F(13) instead of F(9) (so then you would have 2 F(13)/C characters), then he will have a +1 to damage, a 4 point bonus to natural THAC0, and an extra 1.5 ApR in melee (and an extra 0.5 ApR, and possibly an EXTRA 2 point bonus to THAC0, in ranged weapon) over the F(9)---> CONSIDERABLY meaner. And you will want to tap all that extra effectiveness in HoW (especially on HoF); because your F/Cs will likely be on the front line all the time. (My C(12)/R and F(13)/C are destined to be the party's tanks when I hit HoW; and, based on previous experience with similar builds, I expect them to perform most excellently in the role.) Believe me: If you DC out of Fighter any time BEFORE making F(13), you will NOT be saying to yourself in the late game, "Oh, I wished I had DCed out of Fighter earlier." There is no doubt that a F(13)/T(17) is more useful that a F(9)/T(21); and I personally would prefer a F(13)/C(15) over a F(9)/C(19) This is true for a Normal IWD/HoW/TotLM game, and is even more applicable to your HoF-enhanced experience, where you can easily achieve F(13)/C(20+). -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!