Quote:
Originally posted by NobleNick:
ister, Same story for darts and slings. I hate slings, but use them as the price for getting Cleric/Druid abilities. BUT a sling is not the worst ranged weapon you can find: Friends don't let friends do darts: A vanilla dart is 1D3. A vanilla bullet is 1D4+1. Let's not even talk about Jamison's Sling (+4), Giant Killer (+1, +4 against Giants) or Quinn's Fancy Sling (+3 damage, +5 THAC0). Just compare a plain old easy-to-come-by +1 Sling: Average dart damage = 2 HP per hit. Average Sling damage = 4.5 HP per hit.
Now here is where the smoke and mirrors start, because we must hypothesize THAC0s and ACs for an imaginary encounter. Let's presume a journeyman warrior with a natural THAC0 of 9 encountering an enemy with an AC of 0. The chance of a dart hit is (20-(9-0)+1)/20 = 60%. So the expected damage per dart attempt is (0.6 x 2) = 1.20 HP. The chance of a bullet hit (+1 Sling) is (20-(8-0)+1)/20 = 65%. So the expected damage per Sling attempt is (0.65 x 4.5) = 2.925 HP. The slinger gets 2 attacks per round, for an expected damage of 5.85 HP per round. The dartist MUST HAVE AT LEAST FIVE (5) ApR with the dart to better this expected damage (5 ApR x 1.20 HP/attack = 6 HP damage per round, which is essentially the same as the slinger's 5.85). Tougher opponents (better enemy AC relative to the Fighter's THAC0) make the slinger look better. More desirable slings make the slinger look better. Higher level warriors (better ApRs) make the slinger look better. Add in the factors that you pointed out about the plentiful sling ammo (much
|
Hold on here. a +1 sling doesn't add to damage, just to THAC0. So the correct numbers are average damage per dart hit 2 HP, average damage per sling hit 3.5 HP. However, you've also neglected the additional damage due to proficiency slots.
Let me do the correct math for your example. I assume two stars in either darts or slings. Low level fighter (less than 7), so no extra APRs from level. THAC0 = 9 (for the dart), 8 for the +1 sling.
Sling
To hit roll is 8. The fighter has a 55% chance of a normal hit, a 5% chance of a critical hit. Normal damage is 2-5, however we get +2 damage due to 2 proficiency points. Therefore average damage per hit is 5.5 hit points, NOT the 4.5 you used. APR for a low level fighter is 1.5 (1 base for a sling + 0.5 for proficiency). Your fighter with 2 APR must be higher level than mine (which does make the case for the sling a little better). So the total damage per round is
1.5 APR* (0.55 to hit * 5.5 hp/hit + 0.05 citical hit * 11 hp/hit)
this adds up to 5.36 hp per round, a pretty respectable amount.
Dart
TO hit roll is 9 (no advantage from the +1 sling [img]smile.gif[/img] ). The fighter has a 50% chance of a normal hit, and a 5% chance of a critical hit. Normal damage is 1-3, however, we get +2 hp due to the 2 proficiency points. Therefore expected damage per hit is 4, NOT the 2 you used. APR for the low level fighter is 3.5 (3 base for darts + 0.5 for proficiency). So the total damage per round is
3.5 APR* (0.50 to hit * 4 hp/hit + 0.05 citical hit * 8 hp/hit)
which adds up to 8.4 hp per round, or 56% more than the already respectable total from the sling.
This is not something you can just ignore while claiming 'friends don't let friends use darts'. APR makes all the difference, and darts rule for APR.
Heck, just for laughs let's make the fighter level 14 so he's maxed out his natural APR. Now give him 3 stars. And the +4 sling to make my case as weak as possible. Assume THAC0 of around 5, and an enemy with AC of -8. I'll repeat the anlysis
Sling
To hit roll is 13, but the +4 sling brings it to 9. The fighter has a 50% chance of a normal hit, a 5% chance of a critical hit. Normal damage is 2-5, however we get +3 damage due to 3 proficiency points. Therefore average damage per hit is 6.5 hit points. APR is 2.5 (1 base for a sling + 0.5 for proficiency +1 for high level fighter). Now the total damage per round is
2.5 APR* (0.45 to hit * 6.5 hp/hit + 0.05 citical hit * 13 hp/hit)
which adds up to 8.94, much better than the previous case.
Dart
To hit roll is 13. The fighter has a 30% chance of a normal hit, and a 5% chance of a critical hit. Normal damage is 1-3, however, we get +3 hp due to the 3 proficiency points. Therefore expected damage per hit is 5. APR is 4.5 (3 base for darts + 0.5 for proficiency + 1 for high level fighter). So the total damage per round is
4.5 APR* (0.30 to hit * 5 hp/hit + 0.05 citical hit * 10 hp/hit)
which adds up to 9.0 hp per round.
In other words, in a case that's extremely favourable for the slinger (high enchantment sling, tough opponent, high level fighter with very good APR), the dart STILL comes out slightly ahead.
The mathematics is undeniable. Darts are clearly superior to slings in almost every situation. As I said originally the only reasons to prefer slings are
1) Insufficient magic ammo. Only a problem for enemies that can't be hit with normal weapons, as in most cases the natural superior performance of the dart makes up for an enchantment on the sling.
2) Logisitics of carrying around so may darts and keeping the weapon slot stocked.
[ 06-02-2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: ister ]