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NobleNick · 04-19-2005, 07:38 PM

Midget Gems,

You don't gneed gno chart for your gnaive gnovice gnomes. If you did what you should have, and stacked exactly 2 high in exactly one melee and one ranged weapon, then your warrior's THAC0 should be about a gnasty 1

15) (assuming equipment and magical spell bonuses totalling 3).

Morgeraut,

Please excuse an unrepentant, unreformed power gamer. The chart is misleading only to those heretics who want to play a normal RPG. Anyone following the NobleNick school of power gaming will say, "versatility be damned;" then heap as many points into a weapon as possible and use that weapon.

But you are right: maybe a few formulas and examples would help. I am not as strong on this subject as I wish I were, but I'll give it a shot....

For warriors (including Fighters) with 2 PP or less stacked in the weapon being used: THAC0 = 21 - CLVL ( - PP stacked in used weapon - magic/equipment bonuses).

For warriors with 3 PP or more stacked in the weapon being used (only Fighters can do this): THAC0 = 21 - CLVL ( - 4 - magic/equipment bonuses).

EXAMPLE 1: A CLVL 1 warrior (Fighter, Pally or Ranger) who spreads 1 PP each in Large Sword, Dagger, Mace, and Bow; but then unwisely decides to use a plain old spear (even though he has no PP in spear), will have a THAC0 of 21 - 1 (- 0 - 0) = 20. His stats should show as 20(20). Ouch.

EXAMPLE 2: A CLVL 1 warrior, with the same spread, who picks up a normal mace, will have THAC0 = 21 - 1 (- 1 - 0) = 19. His stats should show as 20(19). So-so, even for a CLVL 1 warrior.

EXAMPLE 3: A CLVL 1 warrior, stacking the 4 available PP at the start into 2 in Long Sword and 2 in Bow, and using normal weapons, will have a THAC0 of 21 - 1 (- 2 - 0) = 18 in sword and in bow. His stats should show 20(18) when holding the sword or the bow. Well, 18 is a start...

From here on, with the exception of 2 wrinkles, it is a simple progression of each CLVL gained by a warrior reduces THAC0 by one. The two wrinkles: a Fighter can stack a third PP in a weapon, bumping THAC0 down TWO (2!!) points; and equipment/magic bonuses.

EXAMPLE 4: Assume the warrior in example 3 is a Fighter. At CLVL 3 he gets his third PP, which he stacks in Long Sword, to get 3 PP in sword. Using the formula for warriors with 3 PP or more in a weapon, the THAC0 for sword is: 21 - 3 ( - 4 - 0) = 1

14). 14 is not bad for a CLVL 3 character.

EXAMPLE 5: By the time the Fighter of Example 4 has advanced to CLVL 6 and acquired another PP, he should have at least a Long Bow (THAC0 +1) and may well have also acquired a Long Sword +2. If he stacks his PP in Bow, so as to have 3PP in Long Sword and 3 PP in Bow, he will have a THAC0 of 21 - 6 (- 4 - 2) = 15(9) in Long Sword, and 21 - 6 (- 4 - 1) = 14(10) in Bow. 9 and 10 are not bad at all.

EXAMPLE 6: What happens if this guy meets a boat load of skeletons and decides to use a crushing weapon, like Mace (for which he has no PP)? His THAC0 deteriorates from 9 to 21 - 6 (- 0 - 0) = 15(15) = 15. If he were in my party, he'd stick to using the sword. ESPECIALLY since one of his buddies, striving to thrive in the expansions by becoming a DC Fighter(12)/Cleric, is currently a CLVL 6 Fighter with THAC0 of about 15(9) in Mace; and another buddy, destined to be a DC Fighter(12)/Druid, is currently a CLVL 6 Fighter with about 15(10) in Flail!!

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 04-19-2005, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

04-19-2005, 07:38 PM	#9
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Midget Gems, You don't gneed gno chart for your gnaive gnovice gnomes. If you did what you should have, and stacked exactly 2 high in exactly one melee and one ranged weapon, then your warrior's THAC0 should be about a gnasty 115) (assuming equipment and magical spell bonuses totalling 3). Morgeraut, Please excuse an unrepentant, unreformed power gamer. The chart is misleading only to those heretics who want to play a normal RPG. Anyone following the NobleNick school of power gaming will say, "versatility be damned;" then heap as many points into a weapon as possible and use that weapon. But you are right: maybe a few formulas and examples would help. I am not as strong on this subject as I wish I were, but I'll give it a shot.... For warriors (including Fighters) with 2 PP or less stacked in the weapon being used: THAC0 = 21 - CLVL ( - PP stacked in used weapon - magic/equipment bonuses). For warriors with 3 PP or more stacked in the weapon being used (only Fighters can do this): THAC0 = 21 - CLVL ( - 4 - magic/equipment bonuses). EXAMPLE 1: A CLVL 1 warrior (Fighter, Pally or Ranger) who spreads 1 PP each in Large Sword, Dagger, Mace, and Bow; but then unwisely decides to use a plain old spear (even though he has no PP in spear), will have a THAC0 of 21 - 1 (- 0 - 0) = 20. His stats should show as 20(20). Ouch. EXAMPLE 2: A CLVL 1 warrior, with the same spread, who picks up a normal mace, will have THAC0 = 21 - 1 (- 1 - 0) = 19. His stats should show as 20(19). So-so, even for a CLVL 1 warrior. EXAMPLE 3: A CLVL 1 warrior, stacking the 4 available PP at the start into 2 in Long Sword and 2 in Bow, and using normal weapons, will have a THAC0 of 21 - 1 (- 2 - 0) = 18 in sword and in bow. His stats should show 20(18) when holding the sword or the bow. Well, 18 is a start... From here on, with the exception of 2 wrinkles, it is a simple progression of each CLVL gained by a warrior reduces THAC0 by one. The two wrinkles: a Fighter can stack a third PP in a weapon, bumping THAC0 down TWO (2!!) points; and equipment/magic bonuses. EXAMPLE 4: Assume the warrior in example 3 is a Fighter. At CLVL 3 he gets his third PP, which he stacks in Long Sword, to get 3 PP in sword. Using the formula for warriors with 3 PP or more in a weapon, the THAC0 for sword is: 21 - 3 ( - 4 - 0) = 114). 14 is not bad for a CLVL 3 character. EXAMPLE 5: By the time the Fighter of Example 4 has advanced to CLVL 6 and acquired another PP, he should have at least a Long Bow (THAC0 +1) and may well have also acquired a Long Sword +2. If he stacks his PP in Bow, so as to have 3PP in Long Sword and 3 PP in Bow, he will have a THAC0 of 21 - 6 (- 4 - 2) = 15(9) in Long Sword, and 21 - 6 (- 4 - 1) = 14(10) in Bow. 9 and 10 are not bad at all. EXAMPLE 6: What happens if this guy meets a boat load of skeletons and decides to use a crushing weapon, like Mace (for which he has no PP)? His THAC0 deteriorates from 9 to 21 - 6 (- 0 - 0) = 15(15) = 15. If he were in my party, he'd stick to using the sword. ESPECIALLY since one of his buddies, striving to thrive in the expansions by becoming a DC Fighter(12)/Cleric, is currently a CLVL 6 Fighter with THAC0 of about 15(9) in Mace; and another buddy, destined to be a DC Fighter(12)/Druid, is currently a CLVL 6 Fighter with about 15(10) in Flail!! Hope this helps. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 04-19-2005, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]