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NobleNick · 04-19-2005, 12:17 PM

sheridan,

My guess is that the THAC0 you quoted, "12(8)," is from a CLVL 5 Fighter (if you stacked your PP), a CLVL 6 or 7 Fighter (if you didn't), or a CLVL 7 Ranger or Paladin. Here is a short treatise on HP, THAC0, and Attacks per Round (ApR)

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Hit Points (HP), THAC0, and Attacks per Round (ApR)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
(HP, THAC0 and ApR) vs. CLVL, for selected classes.

CLVL|__________HP__________|____________THAC0_____ _______|______ApR______|
____|_FPR_|_CD__|_TB__|_M__|_F__|_PR_|_CD_|_T__|_B __|_M__|_F_|_P_|_R_|Oth|
_01_|__14_|__10_|___8_|___6_|_18_|_18_|_20_|_20_|_ 20_|_20_|_1.5|1.5|2.5|_1_|
_02_|__28_|__20_|__16_|__12_|_17_|_17_|_20_|_20_|_ 20_|_20_|_1.5|1.5|2.5|_1_|
_03_|__42_|__30_|__24_|__18_|_14_|_16_|_18_|_18_|_ 19_|_19_|_1.5|1.5|2.5|_1_|
_04_|__56_|__40_|__32_|__24_|_13_|_15_|_17_|_18_|_ 19_|_18_|_1.5|1.5|2.5|_1_|
_05_|__70_|__50_|__40_|__30_|_12_|_14_|_17_|_17_|_ 18_|_18_|_1.5|1.5|2.5|_1_|
_06_|__84_|__60_|__48_|__36_|_11_|_13_|_17_|_17_|_ 18_|_18_|_1.5|1.5|2.5|_1_|
_07_|__98_|__70_|__56_|__42_|_10_|_12_|_15_|_16_|_ 17_|_17_|_2._|_2.|_3.|_1_|
_08_|_112_|__80_|__64_|__48_|__9_|_11_|_15_|_16_|_ 17_|_17_|_2._|_2.|_3.|_1_|
_09_|_126_|__90_|__72_|__54_|__8_|_10_|_15_|_15_|_ 16_|_17_|_3._|_2.|_3.|_1_|
_10_|_129_|__92_|__78_|__58_|__7_|__9_|_13_|_15_|_ 16_|_16_|_3._|_2.|_3.|_1_|
_11_|_132_|__94_|__80_|__59_|__6_|__8_|_13_|_14_|_ 15_|_16_|_3._|_2.|_3.|_1_|
_12_|_135_|__96_|__82_|__60_|__5_|__7_|_13_|_14_|_ 15_|_16_|_3._|_2.|_3.|_1_|
_13_|_138_|__98_|__84_|__61_|__4_|__6_|_11_|_13_|_ 14_|_15_|_3.5|2.5|3.5|_1_|
_14_|_141_|_100_|__86_|__62_|__3_|__5_|_11_|_13_|_ 14_|_15_|_3.5|2.5|3.5|_1_|
_15_|_144_|_102_|__88_|__63_|__2_|__4_|_11_|_12_|_ 13_|_15_|_3.5|2.5|3.5|_1_|

- Numbers above assume that the character's STR=DEX=CON=18 & that the "Max HP/LVL" option has been selected in the game options menu.

- THAC0 & ApR in the chart are for the melee weapon. Assumes:
. . - PPs are stacked first in melee weapon, as high as class allows;
. . - Character wields the weapon that gives highest THAC0.
. . - Basic mid-quality Weapon, with NO magical modifiers.

- "Oth" in the ApR section means all classes Other than F, R and P.

- ApR for Ranger is single-handed weapon, no shield. If using shield (verified) or 2-handed weapon (not verified) subtract 1 ApR.

- According to Dundee Slaytern (not personally verified) the max ApR (from personal skills + equipment enchantments, etc.) is 5; but Haste (and other spells) can temporarily boost it as high as 10.

Bonuses To THAC0, Weapon Damage and ApR, vs. Proficiency Points in the weapon. The below PP bonuses are included in the THAC0 and ApR totals in the chart above

_#_OF_|___TOTAL_PP_BONUS_TO___|
__PP__|_THAC0_|_DAMAGE_|__APR__|
___0__|___-1__ |___-1___|___0.0__|
___1__|____0__ |____0___|___0.0__|
___2__|___+1__ |___+2___|__+0.5__|
___3__|___+3__ |___+3___|__+0.5__|
___4__|___+3__ |___+4___|__+0.5__|
___5__|___+3__ |___+5___|__+1.5__| <-- extra 1.0 ApR at 5 PP is not a typo.

- Chart data for ApR, only, is verified.

- 5 PP is the max that may be stacked in a melee weapon.

- 3 PP is the max that can be stacked in ranged weapon, with the exception that 5 PP may be stacked in Axe, which includes a thrown axe. It is unknown (unverified) whether or not the thrown axe benefits from all 5 PP stacked in Axe.

- Fighters may stack up to 5/3 (melee/ranged).

- DC Fighters may stack up to 5/3 ONLY while Fighter class is active.

- Paladin, Ranger and MC Fighter may stack up to 2/2.

- MC Ranger may stack up to 2/2 (unverified).

- All other classes may only stack up to 1/1.

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As has been pointed out, a THAC0 of 12(8) means the effective THAC0 is 8. As you can see, a THAC0 of 12(8) is respectable for a mid-game warrior. The Paladin may look weak, based solely on the above data, but don't give up on him: He gets excellent saving throws, compared to the Fighter, and has other advantages that should become apparent later in the game. The Ranger, too, is much more than just a "weak Fighter," if you build and use him correctly.

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 04-19-2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

04-19-2005, 12:17 PM	#6
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	sheridan, My guess is that the THAC0 you quoted, "12(8)," is from a CLVL 5 Fighter (if you stacked your PP), a CLVL 6 or 7 Fighter (if you didn't), or a CLVL 7 Ranger or Paladin. Here is a short treatise on HP, THAC0, and Attacks per Round (ApR) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hit Points (HP), THAC0, and Attacks per Round (ApR) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- (HP, THAC0 and ApR) vs. CLVL, for selected classes. CLVL\|__________HP__________\|____________THAC0_____ _______\|______ApR______\| ____\|_FPR_\|_CD__\|_TB__\|_M__\|_F__\|_PR_\|_CD_\|_T__\|_B __\|_M__\|_F_\|_P_\|_R_\|Oth\| _01_\|__14_\|__10_\|___8_\|___6_\|_18_\|_18_\|_20_\|_20_\|_ 20_\|_20_\|_1.5\|1.5\|2.5\|_1_\| _02_\|__28_\|__20_\|__16_\|__12_\|_17_\|_17_\|_20_\|_20_\|_ 20_\|_20_\|_1.5\|1.5\|2.5\|_1_\| _03_\|__42_\|__30_\|__24_\|__18_\|_14_\|_16_\|_18_\|_18_\|_ 19_\|_19_\|_1.5\|1.5\|2.5\|_1_\| _04_\|__56_\|__40_\|__32_\|__24_\|_13_\|_15_\|_17_\|_18_\|_ 19_\|_18_\|_1.5\|1.5\|2.5\|_1_\| _05_\|__70_\|__50_\|__40_\|__30_\|_12_\|_14_\|_17_\|_17_\|_ 18_\|_18_\|_1.5\|1.5\|2.5\|_1_\| _06_\|__84_\|__60_\|__48_\|__36_\|_11_\|_13_\|_17_\|_17_\|_ 18_\|_18_\|_1.5\|1.5\|2.5\|_1_\| _07_\|__98_\|__70_\|__56_\|__42_\|_10_\|_12_\|_15_\|_16_\|_ 17_\|_17_\|_2._\|_2.\|_3.\|_1_\| _08_\|_112_\|__80_\|__64_\|__48_\|__9_\|_11_\|_15_\|_16_\|_ 17_\|_17_\|_2._\|_2.\|_3.\|_1_\| _09_\|_126_\|__90_\|__72_\|__54_\|__8_\|_10_\|_15_\|_15_\|_ 16_\|_17_\|_3._\|_2.\|_3.\|_1_\| _10_\|_129_\|__92_\|__78_\|__58_\|__7_\|__9_\|_13_\|_15_\|_ 16_\|_16_\|_3._\|_2.\|_3.\|_1_\| _11_\|_132_\|__94_\|__80_\|__59_\|__6_\|__8_\|_13_\|_14_\|_ 15_\|_16_\|_3._\|_2.\|_3.\|_1_\| _12_\|_135_\|__96_\|__82_\|__60_\|__5_\|__7_\|_13_\|_14_\|_ 15_\|_16_\|_3._\|_2.\|_3.\|_1_\| _13_\|_138_\|__98_\|__84_\|__61_\|__4_\|__6_\|_11_\|_13_\|_ 14_\|_15_\|_3.5\|2.5\|3.5\|_1_\| _14_\|_141_\|_100_\|__86_\|__62_\|__3_\|__5_\|_11_\|_13_\|_ 14_\|_15_\|_3.5\|2.5\|3.5\|_1_\| _15_\|_144_\|_102_\|__88_\|__63_\|__2_\|__4_\|_11_\|_12_\|_ 13_\|_15_\|_3.5\|2.5\|3.5\|_1_\| - Numbers above assume that the character's STR=DEX=CON=18 & that the "Max HP/LVL" option has been selected in the game options menu. - THAC0 & ApR in the chart are for the melee weapon. Assumes: . . - PPs are stacked first in melee weapon, as high as class allows; . . - Character wields the weapon that gives highest THAC0. . . - Basic mid-quality Weapon, with NO magical modifiers. - "Oth" in the ApR section means all classes Other than F, R and P. - ApR for Ranger is single-handed weapon, no shield. If using shield (verified) or 2-handed weapon (not verified) subtract 1 ApR. - According to Dundee Slaytern (not personally verified) the max ApR (from personal skills + equipment enchantments, etc.) is 5; but Haste (and other spells) can temporarily boost it as high as 10. Bonuses To THAC0, Weapon Damage and ApR, vs. Proficiency Points in the weapon. The below PP bonuses are included in the THAC0 and ApR totals in the chart above _#_OF_\|___TOTAL_PP_BONUS_TO___\| __PP__\|_THAC0_\|_DAMAGE_\|__APR__\| ___0__\|___-1__ \|___-1___\|___0.0__\| ___1__\|____0__ \|____0___\|___0.0__\| ___2__\|___+1__ \|___+2___\|__+0.5__\| ___3__\|___+3__ \|___+3___\|__+0.5__\| ___4__\|___+3__ \|___+4___\|__+0.5__\| ___5__\|___+3__ \|___+5___\|__+1.5__\| <-- extra 1.0 ApR at 5 PP is not a typo. - Chart data for ApR, only, is verified. - 5 PP is the max that may be stacked in a melee weapon. - 3 PP is the max that can be stacked in ranged weapon, with the exception that 5 PP may be stacked in Axe, which includes a thrown axe. It is unknown (unverified) whether or not the thrown axe benefits from all 5 PP stacked in Axe. - Fighters may stack up to 5/3 (melee/ranged). - DC Fighters may stack up to 5/3 ONLY while Fighter class is active. - Paladin, Ranger and MC Fighter may stack up to 2/2. - MC Ranger may stack up to 2/2 (unverified). - All other classes may only stack up to 1/1. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As has been pointed out, a THAC0 of 12(8) means the effective THAC0 is 8. As you can see, a THAC0 of 12(8) is respectable for a mid-game warrior. The Paladin may look weak, based solely on the above data, but don't give up on him: He gets excellent saving throws, compared to the Fighter, and has other advantages that should become apparent later in the game. The Ranger, too, is much more than just a "weak Fighter," if you build and use him correctly. Hope this helps. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 04-19-2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]