Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post

NobleNick · 10-12-2004, 04:03 PM

Aerich, Calagari,

If you have to (I often do this), rest on the level below so that you have exactly the spells you want for the fight.

Bingo. Excellent advice.

You may also want to switch up the party formation. If you change it to the triangle so that your best fighter-type is in front, that should help keep the wights away from your most vulnerable characters.

Getting the enemy to concentrate on your most well protected character is an excellent move, provided that this character is very well armored. Calagari's F/C might be up to the task.

This reminds me of a nasty trick someone posted recently: *IF* your Thief can stay hid in shadows at this fight scene (I forget if there are torches there) then put your Thief on the front line and hide him in shadows on the previous level, just before going to DE3. If your Thief is still hidden when the Wights attack, he will be an invisible barricade that the Wights cannot pass through nor harm.

I do have to disagree with NobleNick's assessment of your party. IMO, your front line is fine if it gets adequate support from the back and takes advantage of its strengths. Although your party is not absolutely the most efficient, it should do just fine.

If Calagari's front line is MC F/C, Fighter and Ranger, then I agree. If his front line is F/C, Ranger, Ranger, then I am sorry, Aerich, this is not fine. Not fine now, and will get worse later. Most of HoW is going to be excruciating with this front line.

Rangers get an extra melee attack per round if using a single-handed weapon and no shield (simulating the dual-wield)...

And don't forget the racial enemy advantage. But so what? You aren't going to put these guys on the front line with no shield, are you? Ouch! They'll wilt faster than pansies transplanted to Houston in August. So, at least one has a shield and is helping shore up the front line, therefore no extra ApR. So, unless he just happens to be Fighting his racial enemy, he is going to be as effective as a poorly rolled and poorly groomed Fighter.

...and a F/C is a decent tank.

Better can be had, to wit: DC Fighter[X]/Cleric (X = 6 to 13, 4 to 5 PP in blunt weapon); DC Fighter[X]/Druid (X = 9 to 13, 4 to 5 PP in Scimitar); Paladin (2 PP in LongSword); and SC Fighter (5 PP melee). However, I agree with your statement.

I went through this area on insane with no single-class fighters and a multiclass F/C as my lead, and I did just fine (granted, I had 5 spellcasters at the time, but the point still stands).

Now there you go, again, doing insane things. But with 5 spellcasters, you had quite a lot of buffing available and a whole mess of pain to dish out to the enemy in a very short space of time. That is my point: SOMEBODY has to dish out a lot of hurt to the enemy in a very short strip of time, or you die. Calagari's party doesn't have the offensive muscle in the front line to do much of the work in the time alloted. To exacerbate the situation, his front line is not exceptionally tough; so he has to dish out the required amount of pain in even less time than most other parties would have. Therefore, he needs to play very smart with what he has got to give the rest of his party time to pick up the slack. In your party, you probably could have put Thieves and Clerics on the front line; because your army of spellcasters toasted the enemy before most could close to melee.
One great tactic with a F/C is to cast Protection from Evil, Draw Upon Holy Might (DUHM), and Chant (in that order) before entering combat.

I have always avoided Chant because it required your Cleric to take no other action for the duration of the spell. Hmmm... I guess this is equivalent to the Bard's restriction of do nothing else when Singing War Chant. This might work...

For extra-tough results, drink a potion of giant strength (or cast a strength spell of some kind) before casting DUHM.

I don't understand how extra strength (DUHM and STR potions) helps when you F/C can take no offensive action while Chanting. I would think pumping DEX with a potion or spell of Cat's Grace would be more effective.

One final thought? I'm not sure if you have a cleric other than your F[5]/C[5] tank, but if you do, try using Turn Undead.

I thought of this, too; but don't know if Wights are undead. BTW - If Calagari has an extra Cleric in his party, then my estimation of his party's viability in the later game and HoW goes up considerably.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

10-12-2004, 04:03 PM	#7
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 64 Posts: 1,045	Aerich, Calagari, *If you have to (I often do this), rest on the level below so that you have exactly* the spells you want for the fight.** Bingo. Excellent advice. You may also want to switch up the party formation. If you change it to the triangle so that your best fighter-type is in front, that should help keep the wights away from your most vulnerable characters. Getting the enemy to concentrate on your most well protected character is an excellent move, provided that this character is very well armored. Calagari's F/C might be up to the task. This reminds me of a nasty trick someone posted recently: IF your Thief can stay hid in shadows at this fight scene (I forget if there are torches there) then put your Thief on the front line and hide him in shadows on the previous level, just before going to DE3. If your Thief is still hidden when the Wights attack, he will be an invisible barricade that the Wights cannot pass through nor harm. I do have to disagree with NobleNick's assessment of your party. IMO, your front line is fine if it gets adequate support from the back and takes advantage of its strengths. Although your party is not absolutely the most efficient, it should do just fine. If Calagari's front line is MC F/C, Fighter and Ranger, then I agree. If his front line is F/C, Ranger, Ranger, then I am sorry, Aerich, this is not fine. Not fine now, and will get worse later. Most of HoW is going to be excruciating with this front line. Rangers get an extra melee attack per round if using a single-handed weapon and no shield (simulating the dual-wield)... And don't forget the racial enemy advantage. But so what? You aren't going to put these guys on the front line with no shield, are you? Ouch! They'll wilt faster than pansies transplanted to Houston in August. So, at least one has a shield and is helping shore up the front line, therefore no extra ApR. So, unless he just happens to be Fighting his racial enemy, he is going to be as effective as a poorly rolled and poorly groomed Fighter. ...and a F/C is a decent tank. Better can be had, to wit: DC Fighter[X]/Cleric (X = 6 to 13, 4 to 5 PP in blunt weapon); DC Fighter[X]/Druid (X = 9 to 13, 4 to 5 PP in Scimitar); Paladin (2 PP in LongSword); and SC Fighter (5 PP melee). However, I agree with your statement. I went through this area on insane with no single-class fighters and a multiclass F/C as my lead, and I did just fine (granted, I had 5 spellcasters at the time, but the point still stands). Now there you go, again, doing insane things. But with 5 spellcasters, you had quite a lot of buffing available and a whole mess of pain to dish out to the enemy in a very short space of time. That is my point: SOMEBODY has to dish out a lot of hurt to the enemy in a very short strip of time, or you die. Calagari's party doesn't have the offensive muscle in the front line to do much of the work in the time alloted. To exacerbate the situation, his front line is not exceptionally tough; so he has to dish out the required amount of pain in even less time than most other parties would have. Therefore, he needs to play very smart with what he has got to give the rest of his party time to pick up the slack. In your party, you probably could have put Thieves and Clerics on the front line; because your army of spellcasters toasted the enemy before most could close to melee. One great tactic with a F/C is to cast Protection from Evil, Draw Upon Holy Might (DUHM), and Chant (in that order) before entering combat. I have always avoided Chant because it required your Cleric to take no other action for the duration of the spell. Hmmm... I guess this is equivalent to the Bard's restriction of do nothing else when Singing War Chant. This might work... For extra-tough results, drink a potion of giant strength (or cast a strength spell of some kind) before casting DUHM. I don't understand how extra strength (DUHM and STR potions) helps when you F/C can take no offensive action while Chanting. I would think pumping DEX with a potion or spell of Cat's Grace would be more effective. One final thought? I'm not sure if you have a cleric other than your F[5]/C[5] tank, but if you do, try using Turn Undead. I thought of this, too; but don't know if Wights are undead. BTW - If Calagari has an extra Cleric in his party, then my estimation of his party's viability in the later game and HoW goes up considerably. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!