Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post

NobleNick · 11-12-2003, 10:12 AM

kartetse,

On this forum, of course!

Seriously, a little surfing for D&D 2nd Edition rules (or "THAC0") should do it. BTW, athough most pronounce it "Thak'-oh," the last character in "THAC0" is a zero, not a letter "o."

As Dundee said in his excellent write-ups, Everain's sword is much more valuable (translation: effective) than the flawless. You will understand this viscerally when you meet up with a monster enchanted against normal weapons, and all in your party are getting the message "weapon ineffective," while said monster is pounding your party into pudding. Keep the Everain's until your entire front line is armed with +2 and you have to discard it to make room for a +3 (or better).

Let me try to rephrase Dundee's lesson: You can think of AC and THAC0 as an arms race, since whether or not you hit an enemy is determined by Your THAC0 ("Throw to Hit AC 0.") and the monster's AC. [Vice versa for the monster trying to hit YOU!] So, If your THAC0 = 10 and the monster's AC = 0, then you must roll a 10-0 = 10 or higher on a 20 sided dice (1d20) in order for your weapon to connect (hit). If the monster' AC is -2, then you must roll 10-(-2) = 12 or higher. If your brawny Fighter's THAC0 has been magically enhanced (lowered) to 5 and the poor goblin's AC is 7, then you need only roll a 5-7 = -2 or higher on a 1d20 to hit the scrawny naked cretin. Since the lowest possible roll you can get on a 1d20 is 1 (which is always higher than -2) you should theoretically ALWAYS hit this dude every time you swung the weapon at him. The reality is that you won't (see next paragraph).

There is one small caveat to the above rules of combat: A natural roll of 1 or 20 on the 1d20 means "throw the THAC0-AC formula out:" A natural 1 (critical miss) ALWAYS misses and a natural 20 (critical hit) ALWAYS hits, regardless of the THAC0/AC equation. In addition, a critical miss has some serious repercussions: IIRC you lose the ability to hit for a bit OR your AC takes a penalty for a round (can someone else help me out here?). For a critical hit, the physical weapon damage is doubled (magical damage is not doubled, IIRC).

So, let's revisit our poor scrawny naked goblin: You should, on average, hit with 95% of your swings (attacks), with 18 out of 19 attacks doing normal damage and the 19th doing double damage. Another 5% of your attacks will result in critical misses. (Of course, if it takes 20 hits to do this guy in, something is seriously wrong: like maybe he was an enchanted goblin in disguise!)

IF your weapon hits, another formula (as Dundee explained) determines how much damage the weapon does. Under normal circumstances, a weapon will always do SOME damage; but if the monster is immune to weapons of the enchantment level you hold (e.g., a wight that is immune to +1 weapons and above, and you are holding a +1 THAC0 sword) then the damage from the hit is ZERO, and you get the message "weapon ineffective." It is a real bummer to get in a critical hit with an "ineffective" weapon.

The AC and weapon bonuses can be confusing. Sometimes they say "+1" bonus or "-2" bonus," or just "+2" It is all a bonus which lowers AC or THAC0 (good news in both cases). Again, a +2 bonus (or -2 bonus) to THAC0 actually LOWERS the THAC0 by 2 (which is good). Same story for AC. Some weapons have a split in their THAC0. For example, the weapon description might show no bonus to the AC/THAC0 equation (deciding how often the weapon hits) but have a +2 enchantment for deciding which monsters will take damage from a hit by the weapon. Also some items trade off stats (+1 to STR but -1 to DEX). In these cases the sign is important, with "+" usually being good and "-" being bad. Read the equipment stats carefully. If needed, don the equipment while watching stats to figure out what really happens.

An AC of 0 might be excellent for where you are in the game, now; but in the later stages of IWD, and in HoW/TotLM you are going to want your tank to have an AC much better (lower) than -10. I am in TotLM and my front line has ACs of about -13, -14, -15, and -17 BEFORE any buffers or Bard songs to give them an AC bonus.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bard's ROCK!
Party on!!

[ 11-12-2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

11-12-2003, 10:12 AM	#8
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 64 Posts: 1,045	kartetse, On this forum, of course! Seriously, a little surfing for D&D 2nd Edition rules (or "THAC0") should do it. BTW, athough most pronounce it "Thak'-oh," the last character in "THAC0" is a zero, not a letter "o." As Dundee said in his excellent write-ups, Everain's sword is much more valuable (translation: effective) than the flawless. You will understand this viscerally when you meet up with a monster enchanted against normal weapons, and all in your party are getting the message "weapon ineffective," while said monster is pounding your party into pudding. Keep the Everain's until your entire front line is armed with +2 and you have to discard it to make room for a +3 (or better). Let me try to rephrase Dundee's lesson: You can think of AC and THAC0 as an arms race, since whether or not you hit an enemy is determined by Your THAC0 ("Throw to Hit AC 0.") and the monster's AC. [Vice versa for the monster trying to hit YOU!] So, If your THAC0 = 10 and the monster's AC = 0, then you must roll a 10-0 = 10 or higher on a 20 sided dice (1d20) in order for your weapon to connect (hit). If the monster' AC is -2, then you must roll 10-(-2) = 12 or higher. If your brawny Fighter's THAC0 has been magically enhanced (lowered) to 5 and the poor goblin's AC is 7, then you need only roll a 5-7 = -2 or higher on a 1d20 to hit the scrawny naked cretin. Since the lowest possible roll you can get on a 1d20 is 1 (which is always higher than -2) you should theoretically ALWAYS hit this dude every time you swung the weapon at him. The reality is that you won't (see next paragraph). There is one small caveat to the above rules of combat: A natural roll of 1 or 20 on the 1d20 means "throw the THAC0-AC formula out:" A natural 1 (critical miss) ALWAYS misses and a natural 20 (critical hit) ALWAYS hits, regardless of the THAC0/AC equation. In addition, a critical miss has some serious repercussions: IIRC you lose the ability to hit for a bit OR your AC takes a penalty for a round (can someone else help me out here?). For a critical hit, the physical weapon damage is doubled (magical damage is not doubled, IIRC). So, let's revisit our poor scrawny naked goblin: You should, on average, hit with 95% of your swings (attacks), with 18 out of 19 attacks doing normal damage and the 19th doing double damage. Another 5% of your attacks will result in critical misses. (Of course, if it takes 20 hits to do this guy in, something is seriously wrong: like maybe he was an enchanted goblin in disguise!) IF your weapon hits, another formula (as Dundee explained) determines how much damage the weapon does. Under normal circumstances, a weapon will always do SOME damage; but if the monster is immune to weapons of the enchantment level you hold (e.g., a wight that is immune to +1 weapons and above, and you are holding a +1 THAC0 sword) then the damage from the hit is ZERO, and you get the message "weapon ineffective." It is a real bummer to get in a critical hit with an "ineffective" weapon. The AC and weapon bonuses can be confusing. Sometimes they say "+1" bonus or "-2" bonus," or just "+2" It is all a bonus which lowers AC or THAC0 (good news in both cases). Again, a +2 bonus (or -2 bonus) to THAC0 actually LOWERS the THAC0 by 2 (which is good). Same story for AC. Some weapons have a split in their THAC0. For example, the weapon description might show no bonus to the AC/THAC0 equation (deciding how often the weapon hits) but have a +2 enchantment for deciding which monsters will take damage from a hit by the weapon. Also some items trade off stats (+1 to STR but -1 to DEX). In these cases the sign is important, with "+" usually being good and "-" being bad. Read the equipment stats carefully. If needed, don the equipment while watching stats to figure out what really happens. An AC of 0 might be excellent for where you are in the game, now; but in the later stages of IWD, and in HoW/TotLM you are going to want your tank to have an AC much better (lower) than -10. I am in TotLM and my front line has ACs of about -13, -14, -15, and -17 BEFORE any buffers or Bard songs to give them an AC bonus. What's a party, without a song? Bard's ROCK! Party on!! [ 11-12-2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]