Ironworks Moderator 
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Midlands, South Carolina
Age: 49
Posts: 14,759
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continued:::
quote: Cavalier kit receiving natural 30% resistance to fire and acid: No.
Drows being good or neutral alignments: Yes.
New shapeshifting: The new forms for the shapeshifter kit are arctic boar, black panther, and (my favorite) shambling mound.
Ravager kit: I think that the ravager emphasizes cruelty and maiming in combat. His/her powers don't just "cause more damage", they cause persistent, annoying wounds, blind, and hamstring targets.
Kits were created, then areas were designed. Kits are now being revised in light of close-to-final area design and QA feedback. The three specialty priest kits may very well possess turn undead but lack some other powers by the time the game reaches consumers.
However, it does allow designers to give custom dialogue options when appropriate. The more "appropriate" a character is for the campaign, the more opportunity we have to let them pipe up in their own individual way.
For those among you who are complaining that the ravager seems excessively powerful, you have seen the addition of the halved curing effects, yes? Imagine your "awesome" ravager with 150 hit points getting a heal spell that gives back 70. Better yet, imagine your ravager at 1st level drinking a potion of healing that only gives back 4 hit points.
Cleric kits and turn undead: Kits were created, then areas were designed. Kits are now being revised in light of close-to-final area design and QA feedback. The three specialty priest kits may very well possess turn undead but lack some other powers by the time the game reaches consumers.
Archer kit: Before the trumpets sound and the crusading army mounts up, let me tell you exactly what the goals of this kit will be:
* Better with missile weapons than a standard ranger.
Let me tell you what it will not be:
* Better with missile weapons than a grandmaster fighter.
Fighters in IWD were awfully powerful compared to many of the classes. Until HoW, they were significantly more powerful than paladins and rangers as well. In IWD2, fighters have been pulled back considerably. Not only have the ranger and paladin been beefed up, but the base classes now can get similar bonuses from strength and con -- oh, and extra attacks as they increase in level.
To maintain the fighter's role in an IWD2 party, the fighter must be allowed to keep a hold on those things that are sacred to fighters: specialization at first level, mastery, high mastery, and grandmastery at 3rd, 6th, and 9th levels. That is how fighters keep their edge in a sea of characters with special abilities, spellcasting, and other assorted benefits.
Also, let's not try to bring "realism" into the discussion as a heavyweight force of reason. If you want "realism", we'll give you friendly fire rules. You probably don't want that.
You got me; just as the assassin is, in fact, not hired to kill each individual goblin on the battlefield, does not smoke hashish, and is outclassed in killing efficiency by a fireball, the archer is not a better bowman than a fighter with grandmastery.
It is not going to happen. If you want to play the most powerful offensive missile weapon character in the game, make a fighter and give the character grandmastery in bows or crossbows.
Wood elf fighter + bow grandmastery = excellent character.
Wood elf ranger (archer) + bow mastery = excellent character.
Here is what an archer has with mastery:
+3 to hit and damage
Here is what a fighter has with grandmastery:
+3 to hit and damage
Increased chance to critically hit
Chance to stun on a successful attack
The archer will hit exactly as often as the fighter. Please do some calculations on the effectiveness of these characters before you write them off. Not only does the archer have exactly the same chance to hit as the fighter, he or she has druid spells and stealth.
Guys, you are not going to have your cake and eat the fighter's, too. People asked forever and ever and ever and ever that rangers be able to have extra kick with missile weapons. The archer kit allows you to do that. You are not, not, not, not, not, not going to get an archer ranger that outclasses the fighter in weapon combat.
Here's a question: would you ever include a ranger in your party? If so, would you consider the archer to be a viable alternative to the base ranger? That is really the answer I am looking for. Does the archer seem balanced compared to the base ranger?
You guys are well on your way to convincing me that the archer kit should be removed from the game.
Do you understand how ranger spell progression works? You start getting spells at 6th level. That means that at 6th level, you can cast entangle on creatures, lock them in place, and rain down death on them with mastery in bows. At 15th level, the ranger has 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level druid spells. You can cast static charge, for crying out loud.
Avenger kit: That's the point. Many people don't think shapeshifting is cool. They never use the abilities, so they're like wasted powers. The avenger lacks shapeshifting, and gains two free uses of good druid spells at each of the levels where they would have received shapeshifting powers.
Evil characters: Evil characters are selfish. If he's a greedy b*****d, your character may have answered the mercenary call for phat loot. If your character is a bloodthirsty maniac, it's easy to get away with murder when he's knee-deep in goblins.
Protection spells: The mage's protection spells in IWD2 are much harder to abuse than they were in IWD. Stoneskin, in particular, is nowhere near as valuable. It's valuable if you're a mage in the back of the party, but it's less than awesome if you're a fighter/mage in the thick of battle.
Stoneskin and haste, at 4th and 3rd levels, were the deals of the century in 2nd Ed. Those spells were so easily abused, particularly by fighter/mages.
Spellcasters now make checks to overcome spell disruption. It works pretty well. You don't need to worry as much about your mage losing a spell for taking a bump on the head.
Haste now grants an additional attack per round, instead of DOUBLING your attacks per round.
Stoneskin as written in 2nd Ed. is useful for a mage who tends to stay out of harm's way. The mage needs that protection in case a stray enemy comes his or her way. For the mage, it is a life-preserver. It gets abused quite easily when a hasted fighter/mage with 80 hit points runs into the midst of enemies. When that happens, it is being used defensively/offensively to ignore the first x attacks on the character while they brazenly deal out gobs of damage. The spell still works quite well for mages, but not so well for people who run a fighter/mage up to twelve barbarians.
Priest of Tempus: Priests of Tempus may be of any alignment. Though 2nd Ed. Battleguards must be CE, CN, or CG, 3E FRCS opens the priesthood up to any alignment.
Landsknecht kit (possible replacement for Mercenary): I just edited the kit description
* 6th Level: Hold Ground: When activated, this ability slows the landsknecht to quarter movement. For the next five rounds, the landsknecht gains a +2 generic AC bonus and 2 points of damage reduction. This power is usable 3/day.
Removed: 1 point movement penalty.
This is more in the spirit of the slow-moving defensive fighter and it's not as powerful as a +2 to criticals.
How about a penalty to Reflex saves and a lack of specialization at first level?
The easiest way to adjust fighter kits is to a) remove grandmastery capability b) slow their proficiency acquisition and c) disallow specialization at first level.
The movement penalty all the time would have been easy (and slight), but people think it's too severe. It's difficult to balance fighter kits because they don't have that much stuff to begin with. Often, removing access to weapons or armor doesn't accomplish a lot.
Modified again, adding the following disadvantages:
* Cannot start play with weapon specialization.
* Cannot gain grandmastery in a weapon.
Removed disadvantage:
* Gains proficiencies at a decreased rate.
This keeps the landsknecht +1 to hit, +2 to damage behind a standard fighter starting out. At 3rd level, he's +2 to hit, +1 to damage behind a standard fighter. At 6th level, he's not getting the bonuses to critical that the fighter gains. When he gets Knockdown, it sort of evens out with grandmastery. I think this makes the kit pretty well balanced.
It is not inconsistent at all. Landsknechts used (and use) long offensive weapons that require two hands. I don't think I've even seen an illustration of one with a shield. They're always carrying pikes, zweihanders, crossbows, and primitive firearms.
Weapons Master kit: I have added a section to the first post in this thread called "What I would like this to be" with my personal thoughts on the kensai. It (IMO) more closely models the OA kensai.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE:
Advantage:
* Bonus +1 attack bonus and damage /3 levels. All weapons that they wield are considered +1 magical weapons for every three levels they have. Maximum +5.
* +1 generic armor bonus, +1 every three levels.
* -1 bonus to Speed Factor for every 4 levels.
* May use 'Focus' ability one time per day for every 4 levels: this ability lasts 10 seconds and makes all attacks do maximum damage.
Disadvantages:
* May not use missile weapons.
* May not use armor.
* May not use shields.
* May not specialize in weapon and shield style.
* May not use magical weapons.
Rangers being any alignment and choosing own race as racial enemy: Yes. Malarite rangers on the way.
Theoretically yes, but practically, no. I'm certain that there are far more monstrous opponents in the games than humans, elves, gnomes, dwarves, and halflings.
Magical armor: There are very few suits of magical plate mail, and they do not start appearing until late in the game. I don't even think you find magical chain until about the halfway point. That said, many suits of armor do possess useful magical abilities other than +'s to AC.
Giant Killer kit: A practical cap of +15 or +20 may be placed on the giant-killer's bonuses. The base ranger stops getting additional racial enemies at 20th level or so... I think.
Battle stances in game: Yes.
Votary kit getting more spells: Because the votary is evil more holy than thou "other" paladins, he/she gains bonus spells.
Chad Nicholas (Scriptor)
Archer kit: I think I'll just chime in with my $0.02 since I'm the one that kept telling Josh the Archer was too powerful.
Well, the Archer is too powerful as it currently is in IWD2.
Seriously. Even when going up against a creature that isn't the Archer's hated enemy, the current +1/3 levels to-hit and damage makes it not only hit more often then a fighter of equal level (Half-Orc with 20 STR), but also hit for more damage. On top of that, he gets all the awesome druid spells (Sunscorch to blind underdark denizens, Entangle to... entangle, Static Charge!, Charm/Hold Animal, Cure spells, Call Lightning!, and protection from element-type spells, etc., etc.). Now, add to that if you're going up against the Archer's Hated Enemy, it's just disgusting how bad-ass the Archer is. (Oh, and I haven't had to use Called Shot yet so I don't know how much more of a bad-ass the Archer could be).
As it currently is, (from my play experience with IWD2) an Archer outclasses any Fighter of equal level up through 13th level (as high as I've had time to play through the game) and I see no reason for why it would change later. That's why Josh is toning down the Archer.
I was writing about how it is currently in the game (like, right now as I type this). Josh has proposed how he would like to balance it out (which hasn't been implemented yet). So, currently, my Archer does have a Hated Enemy and bonus to hit/damage per 3 levels.
Kevin Osburn (Line Producer)
New portraits: Yes, there will be more than 3 portraits included with IWD 2. We aren't sure yet how many new ones will be included, so as soon as we know we will let you know.
Pickpocketing: Yes, there are people in the town that you can pickpocket.
Thursday, February 21, 2002
Shadows of Amn Review
Thursday, February 21, 2002, 08:41 | MageDragon
Wargamer has posted a review of Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn. (Spotted at Blue’s News.)
I could go on and say a lot more good things about Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, but I would rather not keep you here all day. This is an amazing RPG, and by far the best I've ever played. It offers tons of cool monsters, interesting items, powerful spells, varied quests, and a plot I really enjoyed. When considering playing Baldur's Gate 2, there are two real things to consider. First, at a bare minimum this game will suck up about 100 hours of your life; the Coalition ground forces managed to eject Iraq from Kuwait in that same amount of time. That assumes that you stick to only the necessary quests. That also assumes you never replay BG2 as a different character class or decide to be an evil character and become Amn's scourge instead of its savior. One has to wonder whether or not reading Tolstoy or spending time with friends and family (and yes role-players do have real friends and family) might not be a better use of four days of one's life. Second, this is not Diablo II; killing monsters is a lot slower and more complex than just clicking on a demon and hacking it to death. If you completed Diablo II and were left with a desire for more enemies and faster action this may not be the game for you. If, however, you looked at Blizzard's latest product and admired the artistic way in which they told the story but otherwise thought the plot was pretty weak, then you may want to head out to your nearest games shop and pick up Baldur's Gate 2.
Kevin Osburn Interview
Thursday, February 21, 2002, 04:00 | MageDragon
GameBanshee has posted an interview with Kevin Osburn, Line Producer for Icewind Dale II.
GameBanshee: Can you give us a rundown of what 3rd Edition rules we will be seeing in Icewind Dale II?
Kevin Osburn: We’ve brought over a whole ton of the new 3E rules. Starting from Character Creation, you’ll be able to choose from all the 3E based races and classes (ie Barbarians, Monks, Half-Orcs, etc). Ability scores are no longer fixed between 3-25, and statistics are very linear now, giving the player a much easier time in figuring out how well his character is progressing throughout the game. After every four levels, you’ll get to add one point to one of your ability scores. Plus the combat system has been totally revamped to use Base Attack bonuses, armor class that is better the higher the number is, and spells use the new Fortitude, Will and Reflex saving throws.
Wednesday, February 20, 2002
On the Black Isle Developer Boards
Wednesday, February 20, 2002, 17:57 | MageDragon
From the Black Isle Developer message boards.
Icewind Dale II
J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer)
Reasoning behind kit changes: BTW, in case any of you are wondering how we have time to revise/replace kits, it's because two months ago, we allocated time for ripping out or restructuring subraces and kits that QA or fans might just not like. I know, I know, forethought is not something we are known for, but we might have actually scheduled something well for once.
Random traps: That's an excellent idea, but it would be hard to implement at this point in development.
This would actually involve placing multiple triggers and launch points for each trap. If a level had twelve traps, it would require thirty-six triggers and launch points, and a mechanism in code for linking a "set" of trap triggers, activating only one trigger per set, and then disabling the whole set once a trap had been deactivated.
EDIT: Overall point: it is a programming and design issue, not just a design issue. I actually thought about it about a year ago for another project. PERHAPS THAT MYSTERIOUS PROJECT WILL HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR.
Deep gnome xp penalty: When one class hits 10th level, the penalty disappears.
Well, it certainly wouldn't be ten total levels, but perhaps we could make an allowance so multi-classed characters dropped the penalty one level earlier for each of their additional classes. That way, a deep gnome fighter/thief (for instance) would lose the XP penalty at 9/9. A dark elf f/m/t would lose the penalty at 8/8/8. That should keep them roughly even... I think.
Created items: I didn't make all of the weapons in IWD, so that Two-Handed Sword of Hammering Sparking +4 shouldn't go on my record, for good or ill.
Puzzles: There are many puzzles in IWD2. Often, if frustration becomes a concern, players have a "kill everyone, let the gods sort them out" option which is often more difficult, but valid.
"Welcome to the monastery. To pass through, you must overcome our trials."
"Nooooo problem-o!"
***
SIX DAYS LATER
***
"To hell with this shifting sand puzzle! DIE, BALD ONE!"
Archers reaching grandmastery in ranged weapons: No.
3E multiple attack with ranged weapons: Yes.
Archer's hated enemy ranger bonus stacking with ranged attacks: Yes.
Any weapon styles having effect on ranged attacks: No.
High weapon masteries for fighters only and not rangers or their kits: Fighters are fighters, rangers are rangers. Fighters get to be good at fighting, period. If rangers are better than fighters at fighting, AND get spells, AND get hated enemies, AND get stealth -- why play a fighter? Some things need to be left for the fighters. Mastery, high mastery, and grandmastery. Only the addition of special kit powers to a fighter should take those options away. In the long run, an archer's bonuses to hit and damage with missile weapons outshines the raw damage potential of mastery, but the fighter always has the option of taking mastery in any given weapon -- or not.
The point of the archer: a ranger with increased ability in missile weapons.
It's a ranger kit. Ranger, not fighter. If you would like to play a character who will be the best archer, stats-wise, make a fighter. If you would like a ranger who is the best archer, stat-wise, use the archer kit.
Stop and think about this for a moment:
Fighter:
d10 hit points
Any Armor
Any Weapon
Ability to gain mastery, high mastery, grand mastery in weapons.
That is what a fighter has going for him.
Ranger:
d10 hit points
Any Armor
Any Weapon
Ability to specialize in weapons.
Stealth
Druid spells at high level
Hated enemy at 1st level, another every 4 levels, grants +4 to hit and damage against creatures of a given race.
Free bonus prof. in two-weapon fighting.
Tracking
If a ranger could get grandmastery in bows, there would be absolutely no point to playing a fighter if you had the intention to make the character a ranged combatant. No metal armor and prof. only in melee weapons? Who cares? With grandmastery, most opponents would be dead by the time they got around your front line to engage the character.
That's like saying there's no reason for a fighter not to get hated enemies because he's not a ranger. AD&D and D&D are both class-based systems. Kits are specializations within classes. An assassin, despite the name, is not better at killing than any other class. It is better at killing than other thieves. A skald, despite being from a barbarian background, is not a better warrior than a barbarian. An assassin is a thief with the flavor and abilities suited towards quick killing. A skald is a bard with the flavor and abilities suited towards heroic combat. An archer is a ranger with flavor and abilities suited towards missile combat. The abilities that a kit gets should be compared towards the base class, not other classes.
Possibility of more IE games: We do not plan to make any more IE games.
We still have the legally-settled option of making more AD&D or D&D games using the "Baldur's Gate" and "Icewind Dale" franchise names.
Weapon damage increases: We are going to do the following:
* Increase two-handed sword damage to 2d6.
* Increase two-handed strength bonus damage to 1.5.
* Decrease off-hand strength bonus damage to .5 (already done, actually).
WORD. TO. YOUR. MOMS.
The spear's damage has already been increased to 1d8. The halberd stays at 1d10, and the two-handed sword moves to 2d6. Spears can be used by most classes now; their bonus lies mostly in ease of use. Halberds, spears, and two-handed swords will all have 2 attack range and they will all gain an increase in bonus strength damage.
Character with an 18 Strength wielding a halberd:
1d10 + 6 = 7-16 = 11.5 average damage
Character with an 18 Strength wielding a long sword:
1d8 + 4 = 5-12 = 8.5 average damage
Of course, a dual-wielding character can offset this with a long sword in the off-hand:
1d8 + 2 = 3-10 = 6.5 average damage
...but that's a lot of proficiency slots in two weapon fighting to offset attack penalties. In the long run, the halberdier will win out.
3 * 11.5 = 35 average damage per round
3 * 8.5 = 26 + 6.5 = 32.5 average damage per round
Of course, there are other things to consider, like weapon bonuses, specialization, and so on, but the halberdier does pretty well.
Weapon speed really is only important when you have one or two attacks. Once you start stacking on more, in the IE, it just forces the attacks to come as fast as necessary in order to get the proper number in one round. For example, a two-handed sword getting five attacks a round will start and finish its attacks at the same rate as a dagger with five attacks a round. Because the animation can only play so fast, it needs to cut out that "lag time" at the beginning of the round to accommodate all of the animations in 6-7 seconds.
Two-weapon fighting style: I believe that thieves, bards, monks, fighters, paladins, rangers, and barbarians can all gain max ranks in two-weapon fighting. Rangers start with a free rank in it.
Resistances: Resistances were never done AD&D 2nd Ed. "propa" in the IE anyway. Sometimes AD&D 2nd Ed. spells granted % resistances, sometimes they granted point resistances. These things don't mix too well. Stacking percentile resistances also resulted in really goofy situations:
Low-level mage casts a 10 point burning hands at your character with 90% Fire Resistance. You take 1 point of damage.
High-level mage casts a 200 point meteor swarm at your character with 90% Fire Resistance. You take 20 points of damage.
It makes most forms of elemental attack completely useless if a player stops to think about stacking resistance effects. Using a point threshold, the baby attacks get ignored completely, but meteor swarms and other devastating attacks still do a lot of damage, as they should, IMO.
Damien Foletto (Junior Designer)
Undead and energy draining: There won't be actual level draining attacks from certain enemies, but there are some that will do Energy Drain.
Energy Drain: -2 to Attack Bonus / -2 to damage, -10 to max hit points (Save vs Death)
We just thought the whole level draining thing was over the top and decided on just a few effects that mimic the life being sucked out of your characters. The Priest spell Lesser Restoration will counter the Energy Drain.
p.s. There's also a unique weapon in the game that has the energy drain ability. "Do unto others," and that sort of thing... Of course it's VERY hard to get, but worth it when you do.
Dave Maldonado Interview
Wednesday, February 20, 2002, 10:08 | MageDragon
Freelancer has posted an interview with Dave Maldonado, Designer for Icewind Dale II.
Freelancer: According to the press-release, we are to expect 50 new spells. Which ones are your favorite, most spectacular, most unusual?
Dave Maldonado: I'm most excited about the addition of the new higher-level spells - there simply weren't enough choices for high-level casters in the previous games. I think we've done well to alleviate that with some of the new stuff. I'm big on summoning monsters to help out, myself, so I dig the new Cacofiend and Summon Fiend spells that let me call in some really nasty fellows. It helps to have a Protection From Evil cast on the party when you bring those bad-boys in, though!
Icewind Dale II Was Spotted
Wednesday, February 20, 2002, 07:50 | MageDragon
Icewind Dale II made a small appearance in GameSpot’s GameSpotting number 27.
You'll also be able to play as the aasimar and tiefling half-breeds from Dungeons & Dragons' Planescape setting--the same setting used for Planescape: Torment--and aside from these races' powerful abilities, I'm looking forward to a tongue-in-cheek reference or two to Torment. What's more, Icewind Dale II will feature most of the interesting (and powerful) specialized character kits from Baldur's Gate II, including the inquisitor paladin and the avenger druid, as well as several all-new character kits.
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